Readers, the following is the raw transcript of the audio version of the podcast which you can listen to above. For more interviews on not only the enneagram but also trauma related content including hope and healing for all the crooked roads, head here. We provide transcripts for the hard of hearing community and is not meant to present as grammatically correct etc.
Katie Ganshert 0:00
I think it’s so much so much for me is about wanting to bring value into a situation or a relationship because I feel like that’s how I’m seen. And if I’m not bringing that value, then I’m just sort of lost.
Amy Watson 0:15
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the Wednesdays with Watson podcast. You have landed on the third part in a nine part series that we are doing on the Enneagram and trauma and loss and how it can help us understand both better. Our guest today is best selling author Katie Ganshert. Katie comes to the podcast representing type three, and the Enneagram. This was such a fun conversation, as Katie talks to us about different ways that understanding how God made her helps her show up in this world as the person that she is as a person who has experienced some trauma as a person who still experiences trauma and she’ll tell a little bit of that story. But this is a really fun episode with a fantastic guest, and an amazing person, author and friend, Katie Ganshert. Let’s drop into this conversation with Katie.
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Wednesday’s with Watson podcast. And we are in episode three of season three that we are calling trauma spaces, places and aces. I am here today with my brand new co host for this season. Chrissy law. Rich, how are you today, Chris? I’m doing great, good, good. We are so excited. Because today we also bring to you one of our friends, and just an amazing talents in the Christian fiction world as well as the young adult fiction world. And so we’ll talk about that a little bit in the course of the interview. But we are so honored to welcome our friend Katie Ganser to the podcast. Katie. Welcome. Oh, and thanks for having me. We are so so excited. And so we’re just gonna dive right in here. I loved the prep for this.
Crissy Loughridge 2:13
I’d like to start with what is your favorite part of how God made you? I bet you guys have had the funniest responses to this. Because why do we not want to say this? We’re like, I don’t know about that question.
Katie Ganshert 2:28
I think that the favorite that like one of the favorite things is, and this is a lot I think having to do with Enneagram three is I am an encourager, and like a cheerleader. I love seeing I love seeing people chase after their goals. I especially love seeing underdogs chase after their goals. And so I will cheer that on all day. And kind of in conjunction with that. And this is the thing, I do love that God created this about me. But I’m a very passionate person. So if when I buy into something, I don’t go halfway I when I believe in a cause, or if it’s an injustice that I’ve seen, I really have a passion for that. And I will be I’ll be all in.
Amy Watson 3:11
You know, it is so cool. Because that so translates into your work, right? The very first Katy Ganshert book I read was “No One Ever Asked”. And I’m not going to ruin it for everybody. But your heart is seen in that book for sure.
Katie Ganshert 3:27
Yeah. funny little side story about that is that I was supposed to be writing a different book. And I tell you this, no, I was contracted for a different book. And I had, I was all into this, you know, like our daughter is we’re trans racial family. So we’re white family, and we’re raising a black daughter. And so my eyes were open to racial injustice. And I couldn’t look away like I just was learning all the things I could learn and reading all the books I could read, and but I’m supposed to be writing this other book.
I was writing and I’m like, I can’t I’m consumed by this. And so I reached out to my editor and I’m like, can I write a different book? Can I use all this stuff? I’m learning and write a story that kind of goes after that. And then bless her heart. She was like, Yeah, let’s do it.
Amy Watson 4:13
So I’m glad you did. It was an amazing, yeah, it may be my favorite of yours, to be honest with you. But So I mentioned that you and I had the opportunity to really flesh through this. And what an unbelievable honor. It was for me to do that with you. And so the the core fear slash motivation slash longing of the Enneagram three is basically it’s a bunch of things, but the one that resonated with you is that the core fear slash motivation and so listeners understand that those words are interchangeable, right? If you’re afraid of it, it’s what motivates you. Right, Cris? It’s the way we behave.
Crissy Loughridge 4:51
Amy Watson 4:52
So yours is seen. And so I loved working through this with you because it was so funny because we did it on
an app called voxer. And at the very beginning, you’re like, I don’t even know if I am a three. I don’t even know I’m so confused. And so So I began to dig and dig and dig. And finally we honed in on something and I remember actually, Katie and I are very similar on voxer Crissy we like to interrupt and so we pause, and then text. And when you came to this realization, I was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. There it is. And so, can you tell me a little bit about what that felt like when you’re like, Oh, yeah.
Katie Ganshert 5:32
Yeah, so I’m very familiar with Enneagram. So when you reached out to me, and you’re like, Hey, would you consider this and my first thought was, I’m so not a stereotypical three. So I don’t know if I’ll be good at like, I don’t know, you know. So getting to the place where I realized I was a three was not like an obvious one. I feel like some people just are like, yep, that’s my number. That was my husband. Oh, my word. He’s like hardcore. anagram nine, like that is him to a tee. And for me, it was like, I think, because there’s a lot of things about the three that don’t resonate. But they’re surfacey things.
Amy Watson 6:07
And, um, and so yeah, I think you know, the Genesis of your realization.
So we came to our realization, and I think it started with the conversation we were having about my son Brogan.
Katie Ganshert 6:17
Yeah. And so I have two kids and Brogan is 12. And he’s a delightful kid. He is like, got the kindest, just sweetest heart and not a mean bone in that kid’s body. And I think sometimes, you know, when you’re 12 that can get taken advantage of and all the things and I was I was with my therapist, and I was not Amy Watson, my therapist, although I think Amy Watson should be a therapist. But this is a while ago, Amy and I were talking about the story. And I was I was with my therapist. And I was we were talking about Brogan. And I was like, Okay, here’s the thing, like, I love Brogan so much, and I see the value he brings to this world. But I also know what the world values. And so I find myself as a parent, trying to fit him into the boxes that the world values and trying to get him to thrive in those boxes so that the world will value him. Like, I feel like the world should value him. And he just kind of looked at me and he was like, that’s a really Enneagram three thing to say. And I was like, Oh, okay. Um, so I think it’s so much so much for me is about wanting to bring value into a situation or a relationship because I feel like that’s how I’m seen. And if I’m not bringing that value, then I’m just sort of lost and oblivion or whatever, like I’m not seen. So and we talked a lot about to how I wing hard into the two so Amy, you wing hard into the three I went hard into the two. And so much of the enneagram three is about success, which which has been a sticking point for me until I realized that the way I’ve used access is in relational terms the value is being seen and then I think because that’s so important to me I go out of my way to make sure others feel seen and which is not a bad thing.
Amy Watson 8:16
It’s not but it can be a little tricky. It can get a little unhealthy Yeah, I feel like with you a lot of that I could I could see in you that the wanting to do to be valued rather than saying even in a relationship I’m valuable because God made me period yeah not because I brought the most to the table I did the most or anything but you’re just valuable because you exist and for who God made you and and so I feel that that resonates a lot with what what you do and what we have to say often well it’s a hard thing to believe like for everyone you know what in your head like I can say that all day. But there’s that translation so like really believe that right? And here’s the tricky part because Crissy you told me that all the time, because I am a performer I want to be wanted and loved as the two but like you mentioned wing hard into the three so clearly I want to be seen here’s the tricky part and here’s where our enemy gets in. Because when you do enjoy success as Katie has and as I have right when our skill set and Brogan skill set when that is that skill set is no denomination that the world rewards like I love your work or I love this or I love that I’ve been very successful as an entrepreneur and so when the world and when my bank account and all the things are telling me that is that’s you
or for trauma survivors out there with trauma you know, there’s this big Amy Watson story and Crissy you’ve been really good over the years although I agree with Katie it’s very hard for me to wake up and go I’m valuable just because I’m seen
Crissy Loughridge 10:00
Right. But there was a time when your story took over. Rather than than you having value it was your story had value. And we had to really kind of separate you from the trauma being who you are instead of it is something that is a part of what God has done in your life, but it is not who you are.
Amy Watson 10:22
Yeah. And God had to say to me and Katie, I wonder if this this resonates with you. God had to say to me, Amy, if I never use any of that, again, if I don’t use it, are you okay with that? And I’m like, probably not.
And so when you experience success, like you have Katie as an award winning author, and you do something differently from authors, I’m just going to plug this here because people know how much I love to read. You are not only talented and successful, but in different genres. Like you can write a book like no one ever asked, and then a young adult series on God, like that’s so amazing.
Crissy Loughridge 11:00
I love I love your young adult stuff. It’s so it’s so different.
Amy Watson 11:06
And yeah, so just such a wide range of talent. Right. So my point there is, I think that when we’re successful, it’s hard to know, I wake up, I am known, seen and loved because God decided to wake up my heart, right? Yeah. It’s crazy. Because, you know, like, so I can say all those things. And I can even people can say those things to me. But it’s like, it’s such work to let it actually sink in, so that it transforms your life. It’s just letting it be this like, it’s there. It’s in my head, I get it. Anyway, yeah, it’s absolutely exhausting to wake up and say, I tell people all the time, especially as a trauma survivor, and we’ll get there in a minute for you. I wake up like, I’m in the basement, like, if you guys wake up on the ground level, I wake up in the basement, it’s like, okay, I have to do all of these things that proves that I invaluable, like little things like eating and drinking and all the things and so it is hard work. I’m so glad that you mentioned that for the enneagram threes out there, because you’re not going to wake up and go enneagram three, everybody sees me cool. This valuable. This is me. Yeah, this is the work of the Enneagram three. And so in doing that, Katie, I think that we’re going to lean into this next question Crrissy, which was actually one of yours.
Crissy Loughridge 12:30
Do you think that the awareness of what motivates you, or the core fear will help you when you find yourself starting to lean into that achieve go go go to strive for excellence in order to feel seen?
Katie Ganshert 12:47
I think that awareness is like the first step. Because if you’re not aware of an unhealthy pattern, then you’re never going to address the unhealthy pattern. So I think it’s a huge, powerful, necessary first step to say, Okay, I’ve got this unhealthy pattern going on. And I need to be aware of it. So. So um, yeah, that awareness, I think, is the first step. And also, I think it’s super empowering to understand why I’m feeling a certain way. We talked about Amy the awards. Okay.
Amy Watson 13:22
Please give that example. I think it’s so good. Yeah.
Katie Ganshert 13:25
So like awards, you would think on the surface. If you know much about the Enneagram three, you would think that would be like the Enneagram threes bread and butter, like you would thrive off of these awards, but I’ve never thrived off of awards. I’ve never, you know, except for like, maybe the first time I was nominated for Christie then it’s all the giddy excited feels. But after that it was just sort of, it was a feeling of relief. It was never it was like okay, okay, cool. Moving along, it was never like, Yay, I’m so pumped and look at I’m gonna put this on my mantel and this and that. Amy and I were talking through this and I was like, I don’t and it was relief because it was this moment of when I win the award, I’m seen.
And I have this moment of okay, I’m seeing I’m not people are seeing me, so I can breathe a sigh of relief. And then I’m still on the radar. You know, like I’m still on people’s radars and now I can move along.
Amy Watson 14:19
Crissy I would be interested in your weigh in here because awareness is everything. And what what what sent me to Enneagram coaching even though I have a solid psychologist that I’ve been saying for years, there was something missing. And Crissy if you notice a difference in me since I learned this importance of awareness of who God made me and how God made me have you seen a difference in doing everyday life with regard I mean, it’s we’re all pretty self absorbed but I’ve noticed that the way you treat me is different
Crissy Loughridge 14:55
your nicer to me….(laughter)
I mean better, better questions for my personality type. And then it leads me to asking better questions of you too. And so, yes, I’ve seen it. Of course.
Amy Watson 15:19
Fair enough. I think that the
And the reason why because I think the tie in there was as I became aware of my needs, and I woke up not so much in the basement every day, like I woke up not feeling guilty that I just want to be thanked, for example, and the Enneagram two, I just want to be appreciated. Every now and then. So I can throw in I love you at me. And that would be good, too. And so I think that now I know to ask for that, you know, when I’m feeling unwanted and unloved. Would you agree, Katie?
Katie Ganshert 15:53
Like yeah, if you know about it, you know, to ask for it. Yeah, or even just I think about this, when I get into these unhealthy patterns when I’m in a place of insecurity, and I’m not my best self. I know that my go to is to scramble. And I scramble in this way of, do you see me? Do you love me? Do you think well of me. And so I go out of my way to like, get really be really encouraging to people. And like, I hate saying that because it’s not false. Like, that’s who I am. I am an encourager. But I go out of my way to make sure that person knows they’re seen, because in this weird way, when they know, I see them that they like me, too. And it’s like this exhausting place of Yeah, like, and I just need to like that. Like, stop, like, stop trying to get your value from that person, not relationship and yeah, so or in, you know, like you said, encouraging them so that they could feel your need, which has to be seen.
Amy Watson 16:57
And yeah, and I think I think Crissy to your point of how you’ve noticed that, apparently I treat you better think that that comes from a pure jumping off point of because this has helped me so much with my trauma, right? When when we got to a part of my Enneagram coaching on the trauma, and I realized that even as a child because of the way God made me, all I wanted to do was wake up every day and be wanted and loved when that wasn’t realized because of my trauma. As you know, Katie, it was a whole new level of healing for me. So I think what you’re seeing Crrissy is you’re seeing me now not operating so much in fight or flight. And I’m like, oh, there actually are other people around me in my world. One of the reasons why you’re my co host is because we call you my Memory Keeper. You’ve walked through all this trauma with me. But yeah, when when I was able to let the Enneagram help me understand why I couldn’t let go of this abandonment and rejection that I had as a child, game changer, game changer. And so Katie, with that being said, as you know, that obviously, as I just mentioned, the podcast is about trauma. When you look back at traumatic events on your life, can you identify where this core fear was more intense? And of course we use that that term interchangeably. So the core fear nobody sees me the core longing and I need to be seen. Can you identify after traumatic event?
Yeah, you know, we’ve been through some trauma up in here. And it’s like, so much of it is so through. I don’t have like, I feel like I look back on my childhood. And, um, have you done EMDR?
EMDR saved my life.
Katie Ganshert 18:50
And yeah. Oh, my gosh, yeah. You know, the process of that is going through a lot of your story with your therapist and figuring out and I don’t feel like I have any it was I had a pretty functional good trauma free childhood. We we have we entered into the world of adoption, right. So and there was all kinds of trauma surrounding that. And so, you know, Salima our daughter she had she has quite a story, and it’s quite a testimony. And it will be it will continue to be one day and it’s hers to share. But it hasn’t been easy, right? So she has she does have special needs. One of one of which is she has severe speech apraxia which makes talking incredibly difficult for her. And, you know, she’s nine, she’s a third grader, and she has to work and we have to work incredibly hard for her speech. And I think that Okay, so I’m going to get there to the being seen part like, not being able to talk is a huge impactful thing, and she can talk right like, but there’s never an easy conversation like even in the most lighthearted moments.
We have to listen extra hard to figure out what she’s saying she has to work extra hard to get her point across. You know, I think about like playdates with friends. She’s a third grader like What do girls do in third grade? They get together they paint nails and they Jabber, Jabber, jabber and, and so there’s all this stuff that’s just pretty heartbreaking that comes along with it and a struggle. And then on top of that special needs is the trauma she’s endured. That’s her story, I’m not going to share, but it comes out in trauma behaviors, early childhood trauma is a beast, as Amy you know, and
and so there’s just been a lot of struggle behind closed doors in our house, and things that the world doesn’t see. Because they see the Enneagram squares and her everyone loves a good story. And her story is feel good and inspiring. And so they see that and they’re like, Oh, it’s so wonderful and lovely. And yeah. And so here’s the thing.
My, my core desire is that I want to be seen, right? Like, we’re struggling, like, I want this to be seen, I want people to know this, I want to be validated like I want, I want people to come alongside me and say, You’re not crazy. Like that’s hard. You know what I mean? And but here’s the rub. Because I’m an Enneagram. Three, I am a performer. And so I could be depressed, and I can be anxious and all the things, but then I can go to a social function, whether it’s family, sports, whatever, and I can turn it on. And I can I can be bubbly and I can be extroverted. And I can be, you know, asking people about how’s your kid and seeing their kid and this and that. And nobody knows that we’re struggling? Because I’m performing. And so it’s like this weird thing where it’s like, I want that to be seen. But because of the nature of how I turned myself on in social situations, I don’t think many people would think okay, are you struggling? You know what I mean? So it’s a weird little.
But, and that’s all wanting to be seen in the trauma that we’re enduring. And I do definitely notice that that that hamster wheel rat race of it’s almost like this weird thing because I become even more determined to bring value and this and that so and then that doesn’t so then because I’m doing that I don’t get seen. It’s weird.
Amy Watson 22:29
Crissy, Crissy coined a term for this thought process. We call it trauma brain.
Crissy Loughridge 22:33
Oh, trauma brain. Yeah, definitely. In the early days, when Amy just first moved in, and and we were struggling so much, there was no room to openly share. It’s not my story. And so there is this sense of I needed community. But there’s also this, I want to protect. you know what I mean? And so you’re stuck in this place of not being able to share.
Katie Ganshert 23:05
Yeah, and but it’s in our family. So like, it’s a journey, we’re walking in there to thing and adoption circles a lot of times called secondary trauma. And it’s like Selima was the one who’s gone and endured certain traumas, where her parents were her family. And so we’re walking through that with her, and oftentimes, it traumas, it’s traumatizing for us or it’s traumatizing Brogan, and, but it’s her story. So like, I don’t want to like I’m not going to start, you know, unleashing all the different things we’ve been through or whatever. So yeah, it’s a delicate balance to walk through and you know,
Amy Watson 23:44
it’s interesting as you use that example, Crissy because at the time when I was going through all of these hard times, not only was it not your story to share, but I was teaching at a Christian school and so it was like, Okay, now everything definitely needs to be on lockdown some of the ways I was choosing to cope and as well documented in things that I’ve written and on the podcast. I had a substance abuse issue like I loved me some pain pills, because I it was a lonely existence. And part of the mission of this podcast is to point out the the importance of one of the C’s, we have three counseling, which we’ve already talked about. But the second one is community. And I didn’t have that and you don’t have that and I think threes out there you may be feeling the same thing. And I only have one answer for you. And this is going to be a humdinger of a question for you, Katie but because when I wrote it I was like, okay, Watson, you need to like answer this yourself. But my friend’s heart, as I’ve put you on my war room, wall keychain. I just feel like fleshing that out. Just I don’t know, Katie and I bonded.
But I’m one I’m wondering how understanding this and this awareness can enrich your relationship with God.
Katie Ganshert 24:59
think the only way to get off of that hamster wheel cycle of like, I’m needing to be seen right now. And I’m meeting these things. And so I’m working extra hard to see others. So they’ll see me and it’s just this whole like warp cycle is to stop.
And well realize that God sees me. God sees every struggle behind closed doors. God knows every single snippet of Salima story and therefore our story. And I think a huge piece of that for enneagram threes, because Okay, so we’ve talked a lot. Another thing that’s not always resonated with enneagram three is this whole idea of gogogo. Like, the Enneagram three is the mom who’s taking your kids everywhere. I’m like, No, I’m a homebody. But, but my mind is always go, go go. Yeah, you know, and so I’m getting my mind to stop. And I think there’s a ton of power in what I’m what I’m realizing because I’ve been going on an interesting faith journey to that I’ve been sharing some some on Instagram and stuff, but is meditation over, have you guys heard of like centering prayer, where you focus on like one word like, or one verse, like, Be still and know that I am God, and just sitting and giving myself enough space to just stop and realize, I gotta take myself off the hamster wheel right now. Because I’m in this place of insecurity. And I’m, I’m going to all these other places to try to meet it. And really the only place that can and the only person that can really fulfill that is God. And so I’ve got to sit. And I got to just sit in his presence. And let really get that distance between my head and my heart, where it’s like, I can say, yeah, he sees me, he knows, but I need to sit and let that sink in. So it can start to transform. So I’m not so frantic and doing all these things. So and I’ll tell you, one of the things that I do I found effective is, you know, when I first started counseling, you know, I just went in there. And I was just doing that, because basically everybody wanted me to.
But as I have gotten more and more healthy, this idea, again, we’re going back to awareness, right? So the awareness of I want to be seen. And so you talk about this centering prayer.
Amy Watson 27:36
And so for those of you out there listening who are threes, one of the thing is so cool, because you can also use the way God made you to calm you down, that gets you off of that hamster wheel that Katie is talking about. So for example, be still I know that I am God, if you just take a deep breath, and I’m not going to do it, because I’m on a podcast, but take a deep breath, and then breathe in a little bit more. And so you really picture the air at the very top of your lungs. And then you breathe out like you’re blowing out candles and and Katie’s example when you’re breathing out your Be still and know that I am God. And what that does is that engages a part of your nervous system that is is the vagus nerve, and it literally acts like a natural Xanax, it calms you down. And so So I really, I really love that you have that grounding, grounding prayer. And I’m going to get back to how God does see us in just a minute but Crissy, one of the questions that we’re asking everyone is that these next two that came from you, and I think it’s really important for other threes out there and so, talk to us about your next question, my friend, I’ve I’ve been wondering
Crissy Loughridge 28:44
how the past 20 plus months have been for you as a three did you go to your stress path? And is there anything that you would say two other threes? That has been helpful for you?
Katie Ganshert 28:59
Yeah, so my stress path is a nine and it’s the unhealthy version of a nine right like it’s not like nines are unhealthy and so I exhibit myself as a nine and it’s like the unhealthy part of the nine so you know when I’m passionate about stuff when I when I bought into things I get stuff done, I can get stuff done, but through the last 20 months, I have found myself going into total sloth mode like no motivation I especially with writing just like it feels like trudging through the mud like I don’t you know it’s just like I just want to shut down and not do it not do anything but when you’re that’s really hard though because then there’s this whole layer of shame where you’re like you’re you’re not doing anything like you’re not you know and so then it but then you get into more unhealthy and it’s just like another whole cycle that happens but a huge piece that impacted our life is it is really great for me to just
Be Selima’s mom, not her teacher. And, you know, I, as a three, I make game plans, I make a plan, I’m going to tackle it, I’m going to, I’m going to, I’m going to tackle the heck out of this thing. Like, you know, I’m going to do a great job with this. And so I was going to be the best teacher to her in this time of she wasn’t at school, like I had to take that over. And so I was going to be the best teacher to her in this time of upheaval as possible. But it just, it wasn’t good. Because I realized how many holes and deficits she had, I realized, this is why she’s in special education. She’s got the support set school that she has, and,
but it was this like, crazy. There’s this meme going around and hear me I was a teacher for four years. So I really have the utmost respect and teacher, and admiration for teachers and the work they do. However, in my four years of teaching, which wasn’t that much, I know that I’m not a superhero. And I know that kids are going to come into my classroom, there’s going to be kids who are way ahead, and there’s going to be kids way behind. And I’m going to do my best to help them but they’re going to leave my classroom. Same way, ultimately, right, there’s, you can’t get every kid to come up to this level they need to be. So I saw this meme going around in the thick of COVID and shutdowns and everything. And it was like, Don’t worry about your children’s academic stuff. Like it’s all about, just laugh with them. And, like, make sure they’re not it’s not you’re not inducing like trauma on them, because their teachers are superheroes, and they’ll basically fix it all. Like, they’ll make sure that and I was like, no, like, that’s one that’s not even true. And two, I’m seeing the struggle she’s going to have, if I don’t address these issues, and she’s just the struggle is going to get worse. And I want to I’m going to lift her up and make sure that I feel these deficits so that she doesn’t have one more struggle on her plate. And it just wasn’t good. Like, it wasn’t good for her. It wasn’t good for me, it wasn’t good for our relationship. Um, you know, I had this game plan and I was committed to the game plan and it was not good up in our house like lots of lots of huge massive meltdowns, all the things but it just kind of it exhausted me like, and I got to this place where I would just like sit on my couch and my husband would come home from work and he’s like, are you okay? And I’m like, No,
my brain is off. Like, I can’t I can’t do this. And so, um, I found myself very much going into that nine mode of just shutting down and and then not liking that not feeling like myself in that place. And probably more shame, I’m guessing.
Amy Watson 32:50
Yeah, yeah. Listeners remember, shame is the game of not our God. Right. And so, although that doesn’t sound like sloth mode, to me, I’m just saying the things that you just did.
Katie Ganshert 33:00
Yeah. Right. Like it was this weird. Like, I was putting all my energy into her education and being the best teacher to her and making sure my kid was my Brogan was okay, in the midst of all of it. That like I went into sloth mode with my writing. I just couldn’t you know what I mean? Like, I was just like, I can’t I can’t I have no mental energy to create and, and then you feel like well, I’ve fallen off the face of the earth. I joke with Becky and Courtney all the time. So I have two really good writer friends that I vox with all the time. Becky Wade, Courtney Walsh, we have this three way conversation going on. And I would joke in this way that was like I fallen off the face of the planet. I wrote no one ever asked and I just dropped my mic and I walked away and no one knows where I went and I and I’m just gonna sink into oblivion and all the things so yeah, it’s funny that you mentioned that because I did notice that I was like first Katie Yeah.
rocking back and forth I’m
Amy Watson 33:58
for the record, I was very was making a lot of progress on my own manuscript and I still struggle to find the words and so I feel you on that and I think a lot of threes will feel you out there and especially people that were called into their homes to work and it just messed up the rhythm and so for the threes and again I wing into the three I’m all about that. That performance and go mode it also helps me compartmentalize and so I feel you on that I think other threes do too. Speaking of other threes, I love this question that you crafted Crissy as we end the podcast here.
Crissy Loughridge 34:31
I I just I just really want to know how what would you like your your friends, your family, the world to know about threes? How can we live in community with you better?
Katie Ganshert 34:42
Yeah, I actually really love this question. I think that it’s, we might not be okay.
You know, like it. Like it goes back to the social gatherings and stuff when I’m out and I’m interacting with people and outside of humans.
outside of my nuclear family, you know, like I said, I can turn it on, I think most threes can turn it on. And we can perform and we can look like we’re fine. And we can cheerlead. And we can encourage all these things. And maybe take a moment and realize that
that person might be struggling behind closed doors. And they might not know how to really share that. And that’s not to say that, like at a baseball game, I want someone to stop and be like,
okay, but just even even like, finding little ways to make sure that to see them, you know, or to see that if they’re a mom, I find we talked a lot about this, Amy, my Enneagram three comes out in spades when I’m parenting, like I want my kids to be seen. And so like seeing my kids. And then one other thing, too, and this goes back to the trauma, there is another meme, like memes going around, I’m going to pull it up so I can see it is, is that I wonder if you’ve seen this too. It’s this picture. And it’s this little red guy. And he’s got this rock on his back. And it says past trauma. It’s like this huge big rock. And then on top of the rock, or all these other rocks like stress pandemic, bad news, right. And then the next window pain of the of the drawing is that there’s this minor, it’s this little tiny step. And it’s this minor inconvenience. So you got this red dude. And he’s packed down with like, all this trauma, pandemic, all the stuff. And he stubbed his toe on this little step. And then he just breaks down and starts. He’s like crying, and then someone next to him says, I think you’re overreacting.
Because all they see is that you’ve just stubbed your toe on this little step. And they’re like, What, what’s your deal, man? And a little story, I guess the best way to describe this is this. So I was dealing with some stuff i i came Selima was staying with my mom for the weekend, because we went to some function, that she didn’t come with us. So I went to go pick her up.
And I reacted poorly. Like, I don’t like the way I handled what the situation that was going on. And so here’s the beast about being a three. Not only do I know I act reacted poorly, I’m hyper aware of how others are thinking of me. And so now all of a sudden, on top of that, I’m like, great, they think I’m a psycho, like they think I’m a like, I hate how they’re thinking of me right now. And so that’s like more stress on top of it. So I think the thing that I would like the world to know about threes is one, they might not be okay, even if they look like they’re great, and to grace, like if they react poorly. If there’s a situation where maybe we’re, you know, like you said, Crissy, we’re kind of these self absorbed creatures. And so if someone comes at us and reacts in a way, our inclination is to be so defensive, and to be like, what’s their deal? Like, you know, and maybe just setting that aside and be like, it’s not about me, they’re struggling, they’ve got other things that they’re carrying, that I can’t see. And that’s maybe why and so just grace to be like, it’s okay, that you reacted poorly. Like, that’s okay. That’s not you. And so an example of that is my mom, you know, we went out to dinner a couple days later, and she just let me unload. And she, she’s my mom, so she’s gonna love me, right? Like, um, well, I should say, I’m blessed to say, my mom is going to love me. And I’m just, like, giving me that space to be like, that’s okay. But you reacted that way. You know, and, and that’s who God made you. All right. Yeah. He made you to respond that way.
Amy Watson 38:40
And I love that message for other threes out there listening. Crissy, she just mentioned something before I go off into the Watson diatribe about grace. And on another podcast, just the way you worded this is a balm to my soul. And I went, I wonder if it would Katie’s as well as other threes that are listening.
Crissy Loughridge 39:00
Yeah, I feel like you know, in this world, and in this moment, and especially let us have grace for one another grace upon grace upon grace. We all need it. It doesn’t matter if you’re a 123456789. We all need it. But especially the threes. I love that you’re able to identify that.
Amy Watson 39:23
Well, Katie, thank you. But I have a message for you, as I do for all the threes. So as I was in the shower this morning, I’m like, Gosh, what’s my message to the three is going to be in the Lord just brought this back to my mind. There is a painting in the Met Metropolitan Museum in New York City. And it is a picture of Hagar in the wilderness and Angel above her and I have taken numerous pictures of it even though you’re not supposed to do that. But that comes from a story in the Old Testament where Hagar the mom of Ishmael.
And we’re not going to do the deep divine dive there. But that’s that wasn’t necessarily a great thing. She was sent out into the wilderness
and God sent, an angel to her that said, these words. And Katie answered, and all threes, I want you to hear me when I say this, I am the God who sees you.
I want to let that brathe I am the God who sees you. And so it is my hope and my prayer that as the threes out there identify that they want to be seen. If nobody else on this planet sees you. The living God sees you. He saw her in her shame. And again, you’ll have to do the deep dive on who Hagar is and why that’s important. But it’s pretty important right now. So this is very interesting. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So Ishmael, the father of the Arabic nations pretty much right. And so we’re still seeing the consequences of her sin today. And so you talk about having grace and threes probably think that they’re the biggest sinners of the whole world, that God sent an angel into the wilderness when nobody would touch her and said, I am the God who sees you. And Katie, guess what I’m looking at you across this room, I want you to know that. Here’s the other thing that I can’t look at you and say, but I close every episode with it’s all over my stuff. Because I believe it to be true. And I proclaim it over you. And I proclaim it over the threes, and I proclaim it over me. And I even proclaim it you, Cris, you are seen. You’re known. You’re heard. you’re loved. And you’re valued. And whatever I have to do on this podcast, and any time I get behind a keyboard or microphone, or podium, I’m going to tell people those five things, because it is the absolute truth. And so, Katie, thank you for being here today. Do you have anything else to add for us?
Katie Ganshert 41:55
No, I don’t. This is wonderful. I really enjoyed it. Well, thank you so much. I know that it was an investment of your time. And guys, Katie, again, award winning author, her latest book is called Contest. My favorite book by Katie is that one that I mentioned, we’ll put all of those in the show notes. But thank you again, Katie. Thank you, listeners. We will be back in two weeks. Thank you. And you guys, all all of you. Remember that you’re seeing known, loved, heard and valued, be aware today. Thank you so much.
Amy Watson 42:37
Well, guys, I hope that you enjoyed that episode, I had a blast preparing the interview with Katie as she and I worked through what it’s like to be in Enneagram. Three, since I wing very heavily into that three. I’m so grateful for Katie for her candor, for her authenticity for her humor. And I hope that her story today and her explaining how she best shows up in this world. Having understanding how God made her I hope that you find hope and encouragement and your times of trauma and loss. We will be back here in two weeks with type four in this series. So while you’re waiting to come back into the healing zone, you know what I am going to say? You are seen you are known. You are heard. You are loved.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai