Trauma, Loss & The Enneagram, Type 3, Interview With Author Katie, Ganshert (with Transcript & Audio)

Readers, the following is the raw transcript of the audio version of the podcast which you can listen to above. For more interviews on not only the enneagram but also trauma related content including hope and healing for all the crooked roads, head here. We provide transcripts for the hard of hearing community and is not meant to present as grammatically correct etc.

Katie Ganshert 0:00
I think it’s so much so much for me is about wanting to bring value into a situation or a relationship because I feel like that’s how I’m seen. And if I’m not bringing that value, then I’m just sort of lost.

Amy Watson 0:15
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the Wednesdays with Watson podcast. You have landed on the third part in a nine part series that we are doing on the Enneagram and trauma and loss and how it can help us understand both better. Our guest today is best selling author Katie Ganshert. Katie comes to the podcast representing type three, and the Enneagram. This was such a fun conversation, as Katie talks to us about different ways that understanding how God made her helps her show up in this world as the person that she is as a person who has experienced some trauma as a person who still experiences trauma and she’ll tell a little bit of that story. But this is a really fun episode with a fantastic guest, and an amazing person, author and friend, Katie Ganshert. Let’s drop into this conversation with Katie.

Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Wednesday’s with Watson podcast. And we are in episode three of season three that we are calling trauma spaces, places and aces. I am here today with my brand new co host for this season. Chrissy law. Rich, how are you today, Chris? I’m doing great, good, good. We are so excited. Because today we also bring to you one of our friends, and just an amazing talents in the Christian fiction world as well as the young adult fiction world. And so we’ll talk about that a little bit in the course of the interview. But we are so honored to welcome our friend Katie Ganser to the podcast. Katie. Welcome. Oh, and thanks for having me. We are so so excited. And so we’re just gonna dive right in here. I loved the prep for this.

Crissy Loughridge 2:13
I’d like to start with what is your favorite part of how God made you? I bet you guys have had the funniest responses to this. Because why do we not want to say this? We’re like, I don’t know about that question.

Katie Ganshert 2:28
I think that the favorite that like one of the favorite things is, and this is a lot I think having to do with Enneagram three is I am an encourager, and like a cheerleader. I love seeing I love seeing people chase after their goals. I especially love seeing underdogs chase after their goals. And so I will cheer that on all day. And kind of in conjunction with that. And this is the thing, I do love that God created this about me. But I’m a very passionate person. So if when I buy into something, I don’t go halfway I when I believe in a cause, or if it’s an injustice that I’ve seen, I really have a passion for that. And I will be I’ll be all in.

Amy Watson 3:11
You know, it is so cool. Because that so translates into your work, right? The very first Katy Ganshert book I read was “No One Ever Asked”. And I’m not going to ruin it for everybody. But your heart is seen in that book for sure.

Katie Ganshert 3:27
Yeah. funny little side story about that is that I was supposed to be writing a different book. And I tell you this, no, I was contracted for a different book. And I had, I was all into this, you know, like our daughter is we’re trans racial family. So we’re white family, and we’re raising a black daughter. And so my eyes were open to racial injustice. And I couldn’t look away like I just was learning all the things I could learn and reading all the books I could read, and but I’m supposed to be writing this other book.

I was writing and I’m like, I can’t I’m consumed by this. And so I reached out to my editor and I’m like, can I write a different book? Can I use all this stuff? I’m learning and write a story that kind of goes after that. And then bless her heart. She was like, Yeah, let’s do it.

Amy Watson 4:13
So I’m glad you did. It was an amazing, yeah, it may be my favorite of yours, to be honest with you. But So I mentioned that you and I had the opportunity to really flesh through this. And what an unbelievable honor. It was for me to do that with you. And so the the core fear slash motivation slash longing of the Enneagram three is basically it’s a bunch of things, but the one that resonated with you is that the core fear slash motivation and so listeners understand that those words are interchangeable, right? If you’re afraid of it, it’s what motivates you. Right, Cris? It’s the way we behave.

Crissy Loughridge 4:51

Amy Watson 4:52
So yours is seen. And so I loved working through this with you because it was so funny because we did it on

an app called voxer. And at the very beginning, you’re like, I don’t even know if I am a three. I don’t even know I’m so confused. And so So I began to dig and dig and dig. And finally we honed in on something and I remember actually, Katie and I are very similar on voxer Crissy we like to interrupt and so we pause, and then text. And when you came to this realization, I was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. There it is. And so, can you tell me a little bit about what that felt like when you’re like, Oh, yeah.

Katie Ganshert 5:32
Yeah, so I’m very familiar with Enneagram. So when you reached out to me, and you’re like, Hey, would you consider this and my first thought was, I’m so not a stereotypical three. So I don’t know if I’ll be good at like, I don’t know, you know. So getting to the place where I realized I was a three was not like an obvious one. I feel like some people just are like, yep, that’s my number. That was my husband. Oh, my word. He’s like hardcore. anagram nine, like that is him to a tee. And for me, it was like, I think, because there’s a lot of things about the three that don’t resonate. But they’re surfacey things.

Amy Watson 6:07
And, um, and so yeah, I think you know, the Genesis of your realization.

So we came to our realization, and I think it started with the conversation we were having about my son Brogan.

Katie Ganshert 6:17
Yeah. And so I have two kids and Brogan is 12. And he’s a delightful kid. He is like, got the kindest, just sweetest heart and not a mean bone in that kid’s body. And I think sometimes, you know, when you’re 12 that can get taken advantage of and all the things and I was I was with my therapist, and I was not Amy Watson, my therapist, although I think Amy Watson should be a therapist. But this is a while ago, Amy and I were talking about the story. And I was I was with my therapist. And I was we were talking about Brogan. And I was like, Okay, here’s the thing, like, I love Brogan so much, and I see the value he brings to this world. But I also know what the world values. And so I find myself as a parent, trying to fit him into the boxes that the world values and trying to get him to thrive in those boxes so that the world will value him. Like, I feel like the world should value him. And he just kind of looked at me and he was like, that’s a really Enneagram three thing to say. And I was like, Oh, okay. Um, so I think it’s so much so much for me is about wanting to bring value into a situation or a relationship because I feel like that’s how I’m seen. And if I’m not bringing that value, then I’m just sort of lost and oblivion or whatever, like I’m not seen. So and we talked a lot about to how I wing hard into the two so Amy, you wing hard into the three I went hard into the two. And so much of the enneagram three is about success, which which has been a sticking point for me until I realized that the way I’ve used access is in relational terms the value is being seen and then I think because that’s so important to me I go out of my way to make sure others feel seen and which is not a bad thing.

Amy Watson 8:16
It’s not but it can be a little tricky. It can get a little unhealthy Yeah, I feel like with you a lot of that I could I could see in you that the wanting to do to be valued rather than saying even in a relationship I’m valuable because God made me period yeah not because I brought the most to the table I did the most or anything but you’re just valuable because you exist and for who God made you and and so I feel that that resonates a lot with what what you do and what we have to say often well it’s a hard thing to believe like for everyone you know what in your head like I can say that all day. But there’s that translation so like really believe that right? And here’s the tricky part because Crissy you told me that all the time, because I am a performer I want to be wanted and loved as the two but like you mentioned wing hard into the three so clearly I want to be seen here’s the tricky part and here’s where our enemy gets in. Because when you do enjoy success as Katie has and as I have right when our skill set and Brogan skill set when that is that skill set is no denomination that the world rewards like I love your work or I love this or I love that I’ve been very successful as an entrepreneur and so when the world and when my bank account and all the things are telling me that is that’s you

or for trauma survivors out there with trauma you know, there’s this big Amy Watson story and Crissy you’ve been really good over the years although I agree with Katie it’s very hard for me to wake up and go I’m valuable just because I’m seen

Crissy Loughridge 10:00
Right. But there was a time when your story took over. Rather than than you having value it was your story had value. And we had to really kind of separate you from the trauma being who you are instead of it is something that is a part of what God has done in your life, but it is not who you are.

Amy Watson 10:22
Yeah. And God had to say to me and Katie, I wonder if this this resonates with you. God had to say to me, Amy, if I never use any of that, again, if I don’t use it, are you okay with that? And I’m like, probably not.

And so when you experience success, like you have Katie as an award winning author, and you do something differently from authors, I’m just going to plug this here because people know how much I love to read. You are not only talented and successful, but in different genres. Like you can write a book like no one ever asked, and then a young adult series on God, like that’s so amazing.

Crissy Loughridge 11:00
I love I love your young adult stuff. It’s so it’s so different.

Amy Watson 11:06
And yeah, so just such a wide range of talent. Right. So my point there is, I think that when we’re successful, it’s hard to know, I wake up, I am known, seen and loved because God decided to wake up my heart, right? Yeah. It’s crazy. Because, you know, like, so I can say all those things. And I can even people can say those things to me. But it’s like, it’s such work to let it actually sink in, so that it transforms your life. It’s just letting it be this like, it’s there. It’s in my head, I get it. Anyway, yeah, it’s absolutely exhausting to wake up and say, I tell people all the time, especially as a trauma survivor, and we’ll get there in a minute for you. I wake up like, I’m in the basement, like, if you guys wake up on the ground level, I wake up in the basement, it’s like, okay, I have to do all of these things that proves that I invaluable, like little things like eating and drinking and all the things and so it is hard work. I’m so glad that you mentioned that for the enneagram threes out there, because you’re not going to wake up and go enneagram three, everybody sees me cool. This valuable. This is me. Yeah, this is the work of the Enneagram three. And so in doing that, Katie, I think that we’re going to lean into this next question Crrissy, which was actually one of yours.

Crissy Loughridge 12:30
Do you think that the awareness of what motivates you, or the core fear will help you when you find yourself starting to lean into that achieve go go go to strive for excellence in order to feel seen?

Katie Ganshert 12:47
I think that awareness is like the first step. Because if you’re not aware of an unhealthy pattern, then you’re never going to address the unhealthy pattern. So I think it’s a huge, powerful, necessary first step to say, Okay, I’ve got this unhealthy pattern going on. And I need to be aware of it. So. So um, yeah, that awareness, I think, is the first step. And also, I think it’s super empowering to understand why I’m feeling a certain way. We talked about Amy the awards. Okay.

Amy Watson 13:22
Please give that example. I think it’s so good. Yeah.

Katie Ganshert 13:25
So like awards, you would think on the surface. If you know much about the Enneagram three, you would think that would be like the Enneagram threes bread and butter, like you would thrive off of these awards, but I’ve never thrived off of awards. I’ve never, you know, except for like, maybe the first time I was nominated for Christie then it’s all the giddy excited feels. But after that it was just sort of, it was a feeling of relief. It was never it was like okay, okay, cool. Moving along, it was never like, Yay, I’m so pumped and look at I’m gonna put this on my mantel and this and that. Amy and I were talking through this and I was like, I don’t and it was relief because it was this moment of when I win the award, I’m seen.

And I have this moment of okay, I’m seeing I’m not people are seeing me, so I can breathe a sigh of relief. And then I’m still on the radar. You know, like I’m still on people’s radars and now I can move along.

Amy Watson 14:19
Crissy I would be interested in your weigh in here because awareness is everything. And what what what sent me to Enneagram coaching even though I have a solid psychologist that I’ve been saying for years, there was something missing. And Crissy if you notice a difference in me since I learned this importance of awareness of who God made me and how God made me have you seen a difference in doing everyday life with regard I mean, it’s we’re all pretty self absorbed but I’ve noticed that the way you treat me is different

Crissy Loughridge 14:55
your nicer to me….(laughter)

I mean better, better questions for my personality type. And then it leads me to asking better questions of you too. And so, yes, I’ve seen it. Of course.

Amy Watson 15:19
Fair enough. I think that the

And the reason why because I think the tie in there was as I became aware of my needs, and I woke up not so much in the basement every day, like I woke up not feeling guilty that I just want to be thanked, for example, and the Enneagram two, I just want to be appreciated. Every now and then. So I can throw in I love you at me. And that would be good, too. And so I think that now I know to ask for that, you know, when I’m feeling unwanted and unloved. Would you agree, Katie?

Katie Ganshert 15:53
Like yeah, if you know about it, you know, to ask for it. Yeah, or even just I think about this, when I get into these unhealthy patterns when I’m in a place of insecurity, and I’m not my best self. I know that my go to is to scramble. And I scramble in this way of, do you see me? Do you love me? Do you think well of me. And so I go out of my way to like, get really be really encouraging to people. And like, I hate saying that because it’s not false. Like, that’s who I am. I am an encourager. But I go out of my way to make sure that person knows they’re seen, because in this weird way, when they know, I see them that they like me, too. And it’s like this exhausting place of Yeah, like, and I just need to like that. Like, stop, like, stop trying to get your value from that person, not relationship and yeah, so or in, you know, like you said, encouraging them so that they could feel your need, which has to be seen.

Amy Watson 16:57
And yeah, and I think I think Crissy to your point of how you’ve noticed that, apparently I treat you better think that that comes from a pure jumping off point of because this has helped me so much with my trauma, right? When when we got to a part of my Enneagram coaching on the trauma, and I realized that even as a child because of the way God made me, all I wanted to do was wake up every day and be wanted and loved when that wasn’t realized because of my trauma. As you know, Katie, it was a whole new level of healing for me. So I think what you’re seeing Crrissy is you’re seeing me now not operating so much in fight or flight. And I’m like, oh, there actually are other people around me in my world. One of the reasons why you’re my co host is because we call you my Memory Keeper. You’ve walked through all this trauma with me. But yeah, when when I was able to let the Enneagram help me understand why I couldn’t let go of this abandonment and rejection that I had as a child, game changer, game changer. And so Katie, with that being said, as you know, that obviously, as I just mentioned, the podcast is about trauma. When you look back at traumatic events on your life, can you identify where this core fear was more intense? And of course we use that that term interchangeably. So the core fear nobody sees me the core longing and I need to be seen. Can you identify after traumatic event?

Yeah, you know, we’ve been through some trauma up in here. And it’s like, so much of it is so through. I don’t have like, I feel like I look back on my childhood. And, um, have you done EMDR?

EMDR saved my life.

Katie Ganshert 18:50
And yeah. Oh, my gosh, yeah. You know, the process of that is going through a lot of your story with your therapist and figuring out and I don’t feel like I have any it was I had a pretty functional good trauma free childhood. We we have we entered into the world of adoption, right. So and there was all kinds of trauma surrounding that. And so, you know, Salima our daughter she had she has quite a story, and it’s quite a testimony. And it will be it will continue to be one day and it’s hers to share. But it hasn’t been easy, right? So she has she does have special needs. One of one of which is she has severe speech apraxia which makes talking incredibly difficult for her. And, you know, she’s nine, she’s a third grader, and she has to work and we have to work incredibly hard for her speech. And I think that Okay, so I’m going to get there to the being seen part like, not being able to talk is a huge impactful thing, and she can talk right like, but there’s never an easy conversation like even in the most lighthearted moments.

We have to listen extra hard to figure out what she’s saying she has to work extra hard to get her point across. You know, I think about like playdates with friends. She’s a third grader like What do girls do in third grade? They get together they paint nails and they Jabber, Jabber, jabber and, and so there’s all this stuff that’s just pretty heartbreaking that comes along with it and a struggle. And then on top of that special needs is the trauma she’s endured. That’s her story, I’m not going to share, but it comes out in trauma behaviors, early childhood trauma is a beast, as Amy you know, and

and so there’s just been a lot of struggle behind closed doors in our house, and things that the world doesn’t see. Because they see the Enneagram squares and her everyone loves a good story. And her story is feel good and inspiring. And so they see that and they’re like, Oh, it’s so wonderful and lovely. And yeah. And so here’s the thing.

My, my core desire is that I want to be seen, right? Like, we’re struggling, like, I want this to be seen, I want people to know this, I want to be validated like I want, I want people to come alongside me and say, You’re not crazy. Like that’s hard. You know what I mean? And but here’s the rub. Because I’m an Enneagram. Three, I am a performer. And so I could be depressed, and I can be anxious and all the things, but then I can go to a social function, whether it’s family, sports, whatever, and I can turn it on. And I can I can be bubbly and I can be extroverted. And I can be, you know, asking people about how’s your kid and seeing their kid and this and that. And nobody knows that we’re struggling? Because I’m performing. And so it’s like this weird thing where it’s like, I want that to be seen. But because of the nature of how I turned myself on in social situations, I don’t think many people would think okay, are you struggling? You know what I mean? So it’s a weird little.

But, and that’s all wanting to be seen in the trauma that we’re enduring. And I do definitely notice that that that hamster wheel rat race of it’s almost like this weird thing because I become even more determined to bring value and this and that so and then that doesn’t so then because I’m doing that I don’t get seen. It’s weird.

Amy Watson 22:29
Crissy, Crissy coined a term for this thought process. We call it trauma brain.

Crissy Loughridge 22:33
Oh, trauma brain. Yeah, definitely. In the early days, when Amy just first moved in, and and we were struggling so much, there was no room to openly share. It’s not my story. And so there is this sense of I needed community. But there’s also this, I want to protect. you know what I mean? And so you’re stuck in this place of not being able to share.

Katie Ganshert 23:05
Yeah, and but it’s in our family. So like, it’s a journey, we’re walking in there to thing and adoption circles a lot of times called secondary trauma. And it’s like Selima was the one who’s gone and endured certain traumas, where her parents were her family. And so we’re walking through that with her, and oftentimes, it traumas, it’s traumatizing for us or it’s traumatizing Brogan, and, but it’s her story. So like, I don’t want to like I’m not going to start, you know, unleashing all the different things we’ve been through or whatever. So yeah, it’s a delicate balance to walk through and you know,

Amy Watson 23:44
it’s interesting as you use that example, Crissy because at the time when I was going through all of these hard times, not only was it not your story to share, but I was teaching at a Christian school and so it was like, Okay, now everything definitely needs to be on lockdown some of the ways I was choosing to cope and as well documented in things that I’ve written and on the podcast. I had a substance abuse issue like I loved me some pain pills, because I it was a lonely existence. And part of the mission of this podcast is to point out the the importance of one of the C’s, we have three counseling, which we’ve already talked about. But the second one is community. And I didn’t have that and you don’t have that and I think threes out there you may be feeling the same thing. And I only have one answer for you. And this is going to be a humdinger of a question for you, Katie but because when I wrote it I was like, okay, Watson, you need to like answer this yourself. But my friend’s heart, as I’ve put you on my war room, wall keychain. I just feel like fleshing that out. Just I don’t know, Katie and I bonded.

But I’m one I’m wondering how understanding this and this awareness can enrich your relationship with God.

Katie Ganshert 24:59
Well, I

think the only way to get off of that hamster wheel cycle of like, I’m needing to be seen right now. And I’m meeting these things. And so I’m working extra hard to see others. So they’ll see me and it’s just this whole like warp cycle is to stop.

And well realize that God sees me. God sees every struggle behind closed doors. God knows every single snippet of Salima story and therefore our story. And I think a huge piece of that for enneagram threes, because Okay, so we’ve talked a lot. Another thing that’s not always resonated with enneagram three is this whole idea of gogogo. Like, the Enneagram three is the mom who’s taking your kids everywhere. I’m like, No, I’m a homebody. But, but my mind is always go, go go. Yeah, you know, and so I’m getting my mind to stop. And I think there’s a ton of power in what I’m what I’m realizing because I’ve been going on an interesting faith journey to that I’ve been sharing some some on Instagram and stuff, but is meditation over, have you guys heard of like centering prayer, where you focus on like one word like, or one verse, like, Be still and know that I am God, and just sitting and giving myself enough space to just stop and realize, I gotta take myself off the hamster wheel right now. Because I’m in this place of insecurity. And I’m, I’m going to all these other places to try to meet it. And really the only place that can and the only person that can really fulfill that is God. And so I’ve got to sit. And I got to just sit in his presence. And let really get that distance between my head and my heart, where it’s like, I can say, yeah, he sees me, he knows, but I need to sit and let that sink in. So it can start to transform. So I’m not so frantic and doing all these things. So and I’ll tell you, one of the things that I do I found effective is, you know, when I first started counseling, you know, I just went in there. And I was just doing that, because basically everybody wanted me to.

But as I have gotten more and more healthy, this idea, again, we’re going back to awareness, right? So the awareness of I want to be seen. And so you talk about this centering prayer.

Amy Watson 27:36
And so for those of you out there listening who are threes, one of the thing is so cool, because you can also use the way God made you to calm you down, that gets you off of that hamster wheel that Katie is talking about. So for example, be still I know that I am God, if you just take a deep breath, and I’m not going to do it, because I’m on a podcast, but take a deep breath, and then breathe in a little bit more. And so you really picture the air at the very top of your lungs. And then you breathe out like you’re blowing out candles and and Katie’s example when you’re breathing out your Be still and know that I am God. And what that does is that engages a part of your nervous system that is is the vagus nerve, and it literally acts like a natural Xanax, it calms you down. And so So I really, I really love that you have that grounding, grounding prayer. And I’m going to get back to how God does see us in just a minute but Crissy, one of the questions that we’re asking everyone is that these next two that came from you, and I think it’s really important for other threes out there and so, talk to us about your next question, my friend, I’ve I’ve been wondering

Crissy Loughridge 28:44
how the past 20 plus months have been for you as a three did you go to your stress path? And is there anything that you would say two other threes? That has been helpful for you?

Katie Ganshert 28:59
Yeah, so my stress path is a nine and it’s the unhealthy version of a nine right like it’s not like nines are unhealthy and so I exhibit myself as a nine and it’s like the unhealthy part of the nine so you know when I’m passionate about stuff when I when I bought into things I get stuff done, I can get stuff done, but through the last 20 months, I have found myself going into total sloth mode like no motivation I especially with writing just like it feels like trudging through the mud like I don’t you know it’s just like I just want to shut down and not do it not do anything but when you’re that’s really hard though because then there’s this whole layer of shame where you’re like you’re you’re not doing anything like you’re not you know and so then it but then you get into more unhealthy and it’s just like another whole cycle that happens but a huge piece that impacted our life is it is really great for me to just

Be Selima’s mom, not her teacher. And, you know, I, as a three, I make game plans, I make a plan, I’m going to tackle it, I’m going to, I’m going to, I’m going to tackle the heck out of this thing. Like, you know, I’m going to do a great job with this. And so I was going to be the best teacher to her in this time of she wasn’t at school, like I had to take that over. And so I was going to be the best teacher to her in this time of upheaval as possible. But it just, it wasn’t good. Because I realized how many holes and deficits she had, I realized, this is why she’s in special education. She’s got the support set school that she has, and,

but it was this like, crazy. There’s this meme going around and hear me I was a teacher for four years. So I really have the utmost respect and teacher, and admiration for teachers and the work they do. However, in my four years of teaching, which wasn’t that much, I know that I’m not a superhero. And I know that kids are going to come into my classroom, there’s going to be kids who are way ahead, and there’s going to be kids way behind. And I’m going to do my best to help them but they’re going to leave my classroom. Same way, ultimately, right, there’s, you can’t get every kid to come up to this level they need to be. So I saw this meme going around in the thick of COVID and shutdowns and everything. And it was like, Don’t worry about your children’s academic stuff. Like it’s all about, just laugh with them. And, like, make sure they’re not it’s not you’re not inducing like trauma on them, because their teachers are superheroes, and they’ll basically fix it all. Like, they’ll make sure that and I was like, no, like, that’s one that’s not even true. And two, I’m seeing the struggle she’s going to have, if I don’t address these issues, and she’s just the struggle is going to get worse. And I want to I’m going to lift her up and make sure that I feel these deficits so that she doesn’t have one more struggle on her plate. And it just wasn’t good. Like, it wasn’t good for her. It wasn’t good for me, it wasn’t good for our relationship. Um, you know, I had this game plan and I was committed to the game plan and it was not good up in our house like lots of lots of huge massive meltdowns, all the things but it just kind of it exhausted me like, and I got to this place where I would just like sit on my couch and my husband would come home from work and he’s like, are you okay? And I’m like, No,

my brain is off. Like, I can’t I can’t do this. And so, um, I found myself very much going into that nine mode of just shutting down and and then not liking that not feeling like myself in that place. And probably more shame, I’m guessing.

Amy Watson 32:50
Yeah, yeah. Listeners remember, shame is the game of not our God. Right. And so, although that doesn’t sound like sloth mode, to me, I’m just saying the things that you just did.

Katie Ganshert 33:00
Yeah. Right. Like it was this weird. Like, I was putting all my energy into her education and being the best teacher to her and making sure my kid was my Brogan was okay, in the midst of all of it. That like I went into sloth mode with my writing. I just couldn’t you know what I mean? Like, I was just like, I can’t I can’t I have no mental energy to create and, and then you feel like well, I’ve fallen off the face of the earth. I joke with Becky and Courtney all the time. So I have two really good writer friends that I vox with all the time. Becky Wade, Courtney Walsh, we have this three way conversation going on. And I would joke in this way that was like I fallen off the face of the planet. I wrote no one ever asked and I just dropped my mic and I walked away and no one knows where I went and I and I’m just gonna sink into oblivion and all the things so yeah, it’s funny that you mentioned that because I did notice that I was like first Katie Yeah.

rocking back and forth I’m

not writing

Amy Watson 33:58
for the record, I was very was making a lot of progress on my own manuscript and I still struggle to find the words and so I feel you on that and I think a lot of threes will feel you out there and especially people that were called into their homes to work and it just messed up the rhythm and so for the threes and again I wing into the three I’m all about that. That performance and go mode it also helps me compartmentalize and so I feel you on that I think other threes do too. Speaking of other threes, I love this question that you crafted Crissy as we end the podcast here.

Crissy Loughridge 34:31
I I just I just really want to know how what would you like your your friends, your family, the world to know about threes? How can we live in community with you better?

Katie Ganshert 34:42
Yeah, I actually really love this question. I think that it’s, we might not be okay.

You know, like it. Like it goes back to the social gatherings and stuff when I’m out and I’m interacting with people and outside of humans.

outside of my nuclear family, you know, like I said, I can turn it on, I think most threes can turn it on. And we can perform and we can look like we’re fine. And we can cheerlead. And we can encourage all these things. And maybe take a moment and realize that

that person might be struggling behind closed doors. And they might not know how to really share that. And that’s not to say that, like at a baseball game, I want someone to stop and be like,

okay, but just even even like, finding little ways to make sure that to see them, you know, or to see that if they’re a mom, I find we talked a lot about this, Amy, my Enneagram three comes out in spades when I’m parenting, like I want my kids to be seen. And so like seeing my kids. And then one other thing, too, and this goes back to the trauma, there is another meme, like memes going around, I’m going to pull it up so I can see it is, is that I wonder if you’ve seen this too. It’s this picture. And it’s this little red guy. And he’s got this rock on his back. And it says past trauma. It’s like this huge big rock. And then on top of the rock, or all these other rocks like stress pandemic, bad news, right. And then the next window pain of the of the drawing is that there’s this minor, it’s this little tiny step. And it’s this minor inconvenience. So you got this red dude. And he’s packed down with like, all this trauma, pandemic, all the stuff. And he stubbed his toe on this little step. And then he just breaks down and starts. He’s like crying, and then someone next to him says, I think you’re overreacting.

Because all they see is that you’ve just stubbed your toe on this little step. And they’re like, What, what’s your deal, man? And a little story, I guess the best way to describe this is this. So I was dealing with some stuff i i came Selima was staying with my mom for the weekend, because we went to some function, that she didn’t come with us. So I went to go pick her up.

And I reacted poorly. Like, I don’t like the way I handled what the situation that was going on. And so here’s the beast about being a three. Not only do I know I act reacted poorly, I’m hyper aware of how others are thinking of me. And so now all of a sudden, on top of that, I’m like, great, they think I’m a psycho, like they think I’m a like, I hate how they’re thinking of me right now. And so that’s like more stress on top of it. So I think the thing that I would like the world to know about threes is one, they might not be okay, even if they look like they’re great, and to grace, like if they react poorly. If there’s a situation where maybe we’re, you know, like you said, Crissy, we’re kind of these self absorbed creatures. And so if someone comes at us and reacts in a way, our inclination is to be so defensive, and to be like, what’s their deal? Like, you know, and maybe just setting that aside and be like, it’s not about me, they’re struggling, they’ve got other things that they’re carrying, that I can’t see. And that’s maybe why and so just grace to be like, it’s okay, that you reacted poorly. Like, that’s okay. That’s not you. And so an example of that is my mom, you know, we went out to dinner a couple days later, and she just let me unload. And she, she’s my mom, so she’s gonna love me, right? Like, um, well, I should say, I’m blessed to say, my mom is going to love me. And I’m just, like, giving me that space to be like, that’s okay. But you reacted that way. You know, and, and that’s who God made you. All right. Yeah. He made you to respond that way.

Amy Watson 38:40
And I love that message for other threes out there listening. Crissy, she just mentioned something before I go off into the Watson diatribe about grace. And on another podcast, just the way you worded this is a balm to my soul. And I went, I wonder if it would Katie’s as well as other threes that are listening.

Crissy Loughridge 39:00
Yeah, I feel like you know, in this world, and in this moment, and especially let us have grace for one another grace upon grace upon grace. We all need it. It doesn’t matter if you’re a 123456789. We all need it. But especially the threes. I love that you’re able to identify that.

Amy Watson 39:23
Well, Katie, thank you. But I have a message for you, as I do for all the threes. So as I was in the shower this morning, I’m like, Gosh, what’s my message to the three is going to be in the Lord just brought this back to my mind. There is a painting in the Met Metropolitan Museum in New York City. And it is a picture of Hagar in the wilderness and Angel above her and I have taken numerous pictures of it even though you’re not supposed to do that. But that comes from a story in the Old Testament where Hagar the mom of Ishmael.

And we’re not going to do the deep divine dive there. But that’s that wasn’t necessarily a great thing. She was sent out into the wilderness

and God sent, an angel to her that said, these words. And Katie answered, and all threes, I want you to hear me when I say this, I am the God who sees you.

I want to let that brathe I am the God who sees you. And so it is my hope and my prayer that as the threes out there identify that they want to be seen. If nobody else on this planet sees you. The living God sees you. He saw her in her shame. And again, you’ll have to do the deep dive on who Hagar is and why that’s important. But it’s pretty important right now. So this is very interesting. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So Ishmael, the father of the Arabic nations pretty much right. And so we’re still seeing the consequences of her sin today. And so you talk about having grace and threes probably think that they’re the biggest sinners of the whole world, that God sent an angel into the wilderness when nobody would touch her and said, I am the God who sees you. And Katie, guess what I’m looking at you across this room, I want you to know that. Here’s the other thing that I can’t look at you and say, but I close every episode with it’s all over my stuff. Because I believe it to be true. And I proclaim it over you. And I proclaim it over the threes, and I proclaim it over me. And I even proclaim it you, Cris, you are seen. You’re known. You’re heard. you’re loved. And you’re valued. And whatever I have to do on this podcast, and any time I get behind a keyboard or microphone, or podium, I’m going to tell people those five things, because it is the absolute truth. And so, Katie, thank you for being here today. Do you have anything else to add for us?

Katie Ganshert 41:55
No, I don’t. This is wonderful. I really enjoyed it. Well, thank you so much. I know that it was an investment of your time. And guys, Katie, again, award winning author, her latest book is called Contest. My favorite book by Katie is that one that I mentioned, we’ll put all of those in the show notes. But thank you again, Katie. Thank you, listeners. We will be back in two weeks. Thank you. And you guys, all all of you. Remember that you’re seeing known, loved, heard and valued, be aware today. Thank you so much.

Amy Watson 42:37
Well, guys, I hope that you enjoyed that episode, I had a blast preparing the interview with Katie as she and I worked through what it’s like to be in Enneagram. Three, since I wing very heavily into that three. I’m so grateful for Katie for her candor, for her authenticity for her humor. And I hope that her story today and her explaining how she best shows up in this world. Having understanding how God made her I hope that you find hope and encouragement and your times of trauma and loss. We will be back here in two weeks with type four in this series. So while you’re waiting to come back into the healing zone, you know what I am going to say? You are seen you are known. You are heard. You are loved.

valued. Love.

Transcribed by

Trauma, Loss & The Enneagram, Helping The Helpers (blog and audio post), Enneagram Type 2, Amy Watson

To Listen to the podcast click here the transcript of this podcast is in the blog post before this one. You can also head to YouTube version of the podcast as well. If none of that works for you, the audio is at the bottom of this post!

The day finally came for Crissy to get behind her microphone and ask me the questions. I was nervous because I had no idea what I was going to be asked or what Crissy was going to share that may or may not be on my list of things to share!

To understand why this day is so important, you have to understand some of the backstory. Much of my journey of trauma and PTSD is well documented on the Wednesdays With Watson podcast, I started the enneagram series because of my work with my enneagram coach Karissa Harrison throughout all of last year.

You see, I hit a wall. Counseling and all of the hard trauma work I had accomplished really did serve to heal parts of me that I never thought could be healed. But there was something missing, and I couldn’t quite understand what it was. I’d listened to Annie F Downs series on the enneagram for two summers in a row and I was hooked. The episode for enneagram twos resonated with me strongly, so I went investigating.

I had taken the test from the Enneagram Institute and had been typed as an 8. I didn’t want to be an eight and some of the information on the eights did not resonate with me; except fear of being betrayed, that resonated. But the rest didn’t seem like me, but I went on about my life trying to live as an eight and was mostly confused.

After listening to those podcast episodes and reading “The Sacred Enneagram”, I decided to test again and those results came back with no doubt that I have been made as an enneagram two. I think it is important to note here that the first time I took the test, I was under a tremendous amount of stress, proving the hypothesis that twos go to unhealthy eights in times of stress.

I NEEDED to understand how God made me, why some emotions and trauma were still raw. I was still searching for that missing piece in my own trauma healing, and understanding my core fears and desires was game changing. Childhood messaging helped me understand some things and covered shame like a heavy blanket.

Fast forward one year of enneagram work later and I am grateful to have found the missing piece for me as I process trauma of abuse, neglect, and abandonment. Understanding that the feeling I have inside of me to be wanted and loved is not selfish, nor is it wrong, but it is the way God made me has given me freedom I never thought possible. Therefore, when my core fear of being unwanted and unloved has been realized over and over, my responses to that are what we would expect them to be. Now when I am feeling these emotions, I know to ask for support in my community, the one that both wants and loves me.

The day we sat down for our interview discussing my journey as a two, I received some horrible news, a friend lost to the pandemic. When you hear the episode, you can hear the pain in my voice, and I continued with the interview because I wanted other type twos to feel heard and seen in times of loss and sadness. We are empaths, we feel deeply and I was feeling that loss on the day of the interview. I didn’t want to hide it, so my voice was shaky, my eyes filled with tears, but my heart was free, because I understood myself, finally.

We continued the interview and Crissy’s questions were insightful and gave me the opportunity to tell the world what I need, and what most twos need–to be wanted and loved and to be reminded of such. My conversation with Crissy helped me understand and explain how type twos will often help because of an underlying need to be wanted and while that was not fun to discuss, it is important for type twos to understand our motivations for helping.

There are some questions to ask before we rush in and help:

  1. Is it mine?
  2. Do they want my help?
  3. Am I equipped to help?
  4. Will helping hurt me?
  5. Will helping enable them?

This list could go on and on but Crissy and I discussed the importance of type twos investigating their motives and striving to not operate out of the core fear of being wanted and loved. Instead embracing that and ensuring your community is the right one for you.

The beauty of the type twos is we have a message from the God of the universe. He both wants and loves us and made us in His image. He made us like no other person on the planet, because that is how much he adores His creation. When the world is cruel, and it is, and we experience our core fear, or we experience loss and trauma, it is important for twos to demonstrate compassion for yourself, and ask yourself:

“How can I allow God to care for me today?”

“How can I demonstrate compassion for myself today?”

“Are my thoughts helpful? Do they serve me?”

Living as an enneagram two is a beautiful thing, and the world loves type twos. However, it is important to remember the downside and that is the propensity to forget your own needs, and that can’t happen.


(this blog is just a debrief from our podcast episode covering the enneagram type two, head here to listen to all enneagram episodes that have been posted so far.

For more of the Wednesdays With Watson Podcast, visit

Trauma, Loss & The Enneagram, Type 2, Helping The Helpers (transcript with Audio)

(Podcast Transcription)

You can listen to the podcast free here, or pick your method. This is a transcript provided for our hard of hearing community as well as those of you who prefer to read instead of listen. A separate post is above this one as we dive deeper here on the blog about type 2’s.

Amy Watson 0:00
I think that having realized that core fear at such a young age, being unwanted and unloved and being abandoned and harmed by those that brought me into this role, my mom, I’ve never up until about 10 years ago never knew anything different than that. It hurts a lot to know that, that my flesh and blood didn’t want me and then fast forward into my 20s my husband didn’t want me

Hey, guys, thank you so much for coming back to the Wednesday’s with Watson podcast. You are in episode two of a nine part series on the Enneagram and trauma and how we are helping ourselves understand and process our trauma based on the way we’re made using the framework of the Enneagram. Today, you’re in for a treat. As the switch has been flipped. And Crissy interviews me, it was quite terrifying. If I’m being honest, that there is wrongness there is realness. There are tears. But most of all, there is the highlighting of the star of the story who is Jesus? While you’re at it, head over to the Patreon account where we are providing free content called AC chat, which is a further conversation after these interviews that Christy and I are doing together with the nine Enneagram types. But for now, let’s drop into this conversation where Crissy interviews me type two Enneagram the helper

So today is a special day and I have mentioned many times that those of you who may identify as an enneagram two would be in for a special treat. And so today we are flipping the switch a little bit. And since I am representing the to Crissy, my co host is going to interview me which should make life interesting. So welcome back to the show, Crissy Loughridge.

Crissy Loughridge 1:59
It’s good to be here. I’m excited about today. I think this is gonna be a really, really good interview.

Amy Watson 2:06
Yeah, and I’m so so excited to have you sitting here beside me. So let’s just jump right in here. We’ve been doing this to everybody else. I can’t not say that I am excited about this part. But let’s go.

Crissy Loughridge 2:18
What is the your favorite thing about the way God made you?

Amy Watson 2:26
You know, I wrote this question I hate it. What is my favorite thing about the way God made me? And so it’s very difficult to not say the things that I can do or whatever, but because that’s the way I’ve always identified myself. But I think after having asked this question eight times to other Enneagram types and evaluating myself. I think my favorite thing about how God made me is how outgoing I am, how gregarious I am. And honestly, I love my Enneagram Twoness, I love even though it’s hard to be as empathetic as I am. I love having a heart for people not that everybody doesn’t have that. But when I see an ambulance on the road, my first thought is dear Lord, please help the people that are in that that accident. I just love that even though so many things tried to break me that that thing that God gave me is still here. So I think that’s the way I would answer that question.

Crissy Loughridge 3:36
Yeah, I love that. And I agree. I mean, it is it is such a gift to to really. It’s a gift to get to do life with you. And I sense that I feel that every day when sometimes you will actually take on the burdens of things outside of what we call your range. Because you are so empathetic and you’re a helper and so it may be the world’s problems that you’re taking on. And it’s good for me to have that perspective because I hone in on my little village too much sometimes.

Amy Watson 4:14
Yeah, and I know sometimes it might drive you a little bit crazy, but But it is my favorite thing about how God made me and really because I get to do this, I get to get behind microphones and podiums and keyboards and help people so I am really grateful for that. And I am grateful for people like you and my community who kind of keep me in my lane, because I know that can be hard sometimes.

Crissy Loughridge 4:39
Well, I kind of want to dig right in. And this is a question I have for you the core fear as I understand it, of the enneagram to his abandonment and the core longing is to be loved. And the story the Lord has told in your life is exactly that. So tell me, how, how do you walk that?

Amy Watson 5:05
Yeah, sorry for the tears because they are going to come. Um, you know, I just, I think that having realized that core fear at such a young age, being unwanted and unloved and being abandoned and harmed by those that brought me into this world, my mom, I’ve never up until about 10 years ago never knew anything different than that. And I didn’t know. And I still don’t know how to walk that out with God. And it’s something that I’m working with now. But I’ll tell you the way that right now that I’m I’m dealing with it is just leaning into the pain instead of doing what I have done for so long. And it hurts a lot to know that, that my flesh and blood didn’t want me and then fast forward into my 20s, my husband didn’t want me. And so I think the answer to your question is day by day, I have a friend of mine, who says, strength for each moment, grace for each day. And so as I’m walking in my journey now of healing and trying to understand and trying to really indict God, like you made me this way, you made me with this fear of being unwanted and loved, and then you did it. And there’s something very powerful about sending in that tension. And so I think the answer to your question is to be continued. You know,

Crissy Loughridge 6:37
a huge part of me being a lover of justice is indeed mad at God. If if you made me this way, why would you do the very thing that would be the worst, and yet, that is part of what makes God’s abundant love abundant grace, abundant healing? Obvious, this is worst case scenario for me. And in here, the Lord has has taken what is so what is the worst? And is redeeming it. That does not mean that you wake up in the morning and everything is great. It means that day by day, he is telling a beautiful story. It is Beauty from Ashes.

Amy Watson 7:34
Yeah, and I don’t always see it that way. Yeah, I pour myself into this work as podcast and, and other things. And I don’t always see the Beauty from Ashes. I’ve often referred to myself as a spoil of war, like, Okay, God, you just keep throwing it at me and not, not throw it at everybody else. But one thing that I have learned, and particularly through Enneagram work. And again, I don’t think that the enneagram is the end all. But I think when it’s when it’s paired with a gospel centered, truth, like has been happening with me in Enneagram coaching is this, this idea that he both loves me, and chose me, frankly, to go through some of the things that I’ve gone through. And I think of, of the man at the healing pool, where he just wouldn’t get in the pool and wouldn’t get in the pool, because probably because he was mad at God. And for a long time, I didn’t get in the healing pool. And now I’m there. And I’m using the framework of the Enneagram. And so I’m able to say to my friends, I’m able to say to you, Hey, I just need to feel loved. I need to feel wanted. And I need it to be because I woke up not because of what I provide in my community does a great job at that for me.

Crissy Loughridge 8:58
So my next question is, for the Enneagram tools out there, how do you walk through the daily stresses and then traumas that happened to all of us, aside from your your past? Do you have any practical tips, things that you’ve noticed that you’ve gotten better at or that the Lord has helped you? tools and tips types of thing?

Amy Watson 9:23
Yeah, it’s a great question, particularly for those Enneagram twos out there who have experienced trauma. And so practically speaking, I have found since I started paying attention, and I think that’s why we’re doing this series is to help people understand, like, pay attention to how God made you and therefore you can almost custom fit, if you will, a healing plan that is for you. And so on on the daily and this does happen to me every day. While I might not recognize it This core fear of mainly be an unwanted because I feel pretty loved. But mainly being unwanted. I have to be very, very diligent about keeping people around me number one, that will call me out on it and say, Look, you’re trying to prove your worth to the world by things that you’re doing. And you are worthy and you are loved, because you woke up this morning because God created you in His own image. And so that would be the first thing I would say, practically speaking, is having people around me, that will sometimes recognize what I don’t even recognize, which is really common in trauma. I think probably one of the things that you do really well is some, some mornings, I will wake up and we live right next door to each other. And we’re business partners, so lots of reason for morning interaction. And sometimes you can just look at me and say, Okay, what’s wrong? And, and then be able to talk that out. I think that Enneagram coaching has been huge for me. And so I know that not everyone can afford that. But it’s one of the reasons why we are doing this deep dive is to to understand, what would it look like if I allow God to care for me? And that’s a question that I learned in enneagram coaching, then ask every day, you know, and finally Chrissy, I think that and really, this is the last and certainly not least, but paramount. Matthew 633 says, Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all of these things will be added unto you. And so as a trauma survivor, who sits in a strong Enneagram to with that, that desire to be wanted and to be loved, and to really do anything to make that happen. I know that on any given day, as I walk through the everyday traumas, plus the stuff that already happened to me, if I’m seeking first the kingdom of God, all of these things will be added on to me. And when I think of all one of the things that I think of the most is peace, the peace that passes all understanding. I often quote Isaiah 26 Three, where the Bible says I will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on day because he trusted, and the and then Psalm 43, where he promises to walk with us through everything that I’ve been through. And so those are the practical answers to that question cracy of how on the daily, basically understanding the way God made me and my, and the blueprint of how he made me and Psalm 319 Plus trauma, this is how I emotionally get through every day.

Crissy Loughridge 12:40
Tell me some unhealthy ways that you walk through your day you’ve just taught told us, you know, the the good ways, the healthy ways to walk through stress and trauma. Talk to us about the unhealthy ways

Amy Watson 12:55
going for the juggler are we Crissy Loughrdige. Wow, some unhealthy ways. Well, they are many. They are many, when you think about the core fear of being unwanted or unloved. And then you think about that fear haven’t been realized and trauma like like mine has. If I can’t stay with the things that I just mentioned to you, then I will spiral and that used to exhibit itself and attention seeking behavior. Like I would go on Facebook and go I stubbed my toe, everybody pray for me, when I realized that that wasn’t cool. And that that’s not what people wanted. I now find myself quite the opposite, where I will completely shut down. I will go into a dark room with a sad documentary, something that would expel tears from my eyes. Because at that moment, I’m feeling both unwanted and unloved. And I’m coming up empty. When I asked that question, how can I allow God to care for me? And so I have a fire escape plan for that. And it’s a four hour fire escape plan. And basically when my DVD DVR receiver in my room tells me Hey, you’ve been inactive for four hours. Would you like for me to turn it off? I make myself get up. Normally I will reach out to a friend at that point and won’t say hey, I need your own phone unwanted or unloved. But I may be intentional about reaching out to someone who will make me feel both of those things. And then finally I will land in the war room with lots of tears and explaining to God how I felt unwanted and unloved. And always of the last couple of weeks I’ve been getting this vision in my head of my Jesus the star of the story and that vision goes something like this after that first abuse that I remember when I was seven years old, I remember very distinctly the next morning. I’ve lived in Florida my whole life. And so the sun was bright. And I remember just as a seven year old, so headed kid, creeping down the stairs after a night of hell, basically. And I went on about my life, trying to find people to want me and love me and, and provide for myself. But of late as I’ve been trying to lean into the sovereignty of God and all of this. I now envision Jesus at the bottom of the stairs, kneeling down, waiting for me, frankly. And I see him there, and I’m confused and maybe don’t even know who he is. But he takes my hand and puts it in his nail scarred hands. And as simply says to me, me, too, than hearing a lot of that lately. And these times when I don’t do such a great job of the things that I described before on the daily, I hope that answers your question.

Crissy Loughridge 16:05
Yeah, yeah, that definitely does. In the past 20 months, obviously, it’s been a lot for everyone. It does feel like it’s trauma on top of trauma. Tell me how you’ve walked through that? And how, yeah, how have you walked through that?

Amy Watson 16:30
Yeah, so everybody that we’ve asked this question to as responded the same, it was awful, it was horrible. It was it was all the things. And it was awful. And it was horrible. And it was all the things early on in the pandemic, my livelihood, was very much in jeopardy, a career that has spanned 26 years. And so there was that. But there was this 24/7 News loop of death and destruction and, and bad news and words, like it’s going to be a long, dark winter, and all of the things and I just remember, especially early on, and the pandemic, and I’m so grateful for Christian artists who just did these free live in your own concerts. And so I would just sit in that dark room and that place that I just described to you, because I didn’t have my community there to remind me that I was both wanted and loved. And I would just watch video after video and just sob at the sadness of it. And I was lonely. And, and the same thing that everybody else is. And so for twos out there, I hope that you did like I did, and that somewhere along the way, you managed to turn off the news. And you start watching the sadness, and even Crissy on this day that we recording this podcast, there is still things going on out there that Enneagram twos need to basically not know about, I leaned a lot on my community to tell me if there was a hurricane coming or something because as a type two watching the numbers trickle up every day on the news of people dying, it just that part of the type two, who just wants to help. I remember just thinking I want to clean out my pantry and take it to people who can’t have it or domestic violence skyrocketed by by double digits, kids weren’t being fed, abused, kids weren’t being reported. And all of that stuff was atrocious, her a type two, because there was nothing, absolutely nothing, that we could do. Nothing that we could do. And so it was awful. It was horrible. But it was an opportunity for me to realize the sovereignty of God, and that he had it. And then he could do so much more than I could for these people as he continues to. But it was a rough go. It was an absolute rough go.

Crissy Loughridge 19:00
Yeah, it was, it was hard to be there with you. And I understand better. And now that I understand your Enneagram type, how the news the world affected you so much. And of course being really the opposite of you. I thrive in intense situations. So I was to some degree living my best life. And, and

Amy Watson 19:31
they say that Enneagram six had been preparing their whole lives for for the for that.

Crissy Loughridge 19:36
And it’s kind of true. It’s so and I’m an introvert and so all of it. It was so hard for me to really dig in and understand the depth of how hard it was for you. Not that it was a cakewalk for me, but it was completely different. Our experiences were just so vastly different. And that is where really understanding one another, and trying to come alongside and not make you to a six and not make a six, a two or any of us you can run I mean, and again, we are our type, we aren’t our Enneagram type only. But I do want to really say, allow the people in your life to thrive and who they are, and help them. So when you would get into your deep dark cave for too long, I could come in and say, Hey, we are safe. Now, you and I are standing here in our little neck of the woods alive. And that is good. And so let’s focus here for a moment, just to get you out of your head, and then you would help me see the world. And so so it’s good for us to be in community.

Amy Watson 20:57
And I don’t think we can over stress that on this podcast. I mean, it seems to be in central theme. So twos out there, if you’re still feeling that pandemic empathy overload, I would strongly encourage you to get someone different from you, to pull you out of it. And to encourage you that God is still on the throne. He’s still sovereign. Yes, it’s sad. And so what I have found Crissy is that the best thing I can do at this point, because pretty soon we’re going to be talking about and maybe even by the time this airs, will be upwards of 22 months ish. And so this doesn’t seem to be going away anytime soon. And so we will, it is really important for all of us to help each other. Because when we get to your interview, there were ways I was able to help you. And so that’s how the pandemic has been for this Enneagram to anyway,

Crissy Loughridge 21:50
so I’d like to kind of wrap up with the question we ask everyone. What would you like the world, your friends, your family to know about the twos about? How can we help you guys thrive?

Amy Watson 22:04
And I’m going to assume trauma here. Yeah, okay, so. So I’m going to start with my friends and my family, the people that I’m closest to how you can help me thrive. If you just give us a little bit of grace, and understand that we experience the world, through all the fields, our center of intelligence is our heart. And so if you just be patient with us, and realize that we are going to respond to the the, the pain of other people, we’re gonna respond very differently than other people will practically Karissa you’re a very practical person. And so like you said, you’re able to go into go mode. But I think if my friends and family would look at me, and view me as just someone that was made this way, and 100% wants to live and the framework of how God made me, I think that for my friends and family, if you just keep reminding me that I am loved, for who I am and not for what I do. It’s easy when when people are saying nice things about you, or you just happen to have a skill set that that the world really appreciates, it’s easy to get my value tied up in that. And so sometimes I just need people to say, just like Mom MCGowan, did that time when I was 15, has anybody told you today? Has anybody told you today that they love you? Please don’t assume that we know you love us just because of the way you treat us. Sometimes we need to hear the words. I saw something the other day get so used to telling people, your friends that you love them, particularly when you get off the phone with them. That is not weird anymore. And so I think I can speak for all Enneagram twos out there when I say we need to hear you say that you love us. And then finally, if you would take a little bit of steps towards us when we are on empathy overload, and maybe even help us say, well, practically, what can you do to help in that situation? And we may end up that there’s nothing we can do to help, but just talking through it. Twos are very huge. I thought this was just a me thing, but it’s not the more research I do. Twos are huge verbal processors. And so sometimes we just need to talk. And I tend to I tend to attract introverts, and so sometimes that’s that’s hard for some of my closest friends. But sometimes we just need to talk things through we’re verbally processors. And I would just say love us well, especially in the presence of trauma. I know that it’s hard to do life and I’m speaking to you particularly for see with someone With the body of trauma that I have, but sometimes we just need to know that we are the precious daughter of the Most High God, because we got up and that morning, and we’ve read there. And so I hope that answers your question. We just, we need you to step in our direction a little bit and understand that we’re not just people that want to be sad all the time, or that just want to take on the problems of the world. But we are empathetic, we feel deeply. And we need to be reminded that we’re loved. And sometimes we just need to hear those words.

Crissy Loughridge 25:34
Yeah, I feel like one of the common themes when we ask this question is, kind of love us in our broken places. And love us in the in the good to, like, I think that recognizing that you have a real superpower, like we’ve talked about that a couple times with different with different guests, is you each of us has kind of a little superpower, and allowing you to be that person who is really empathetic and sees the world and not push it down. And not how you to be different than who you are. And you are a helper and allow you to help instead of saying, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, we’ve got this. But just being that safe place where you can be you and and loved well.

Amy Watson 26:27
Yeah, I think that’s a good word. And a great example of that. I remember one time asking you, you’re about 30 feet from me, and I was literally standing at the coffee machine. And I said, Hey, can I bring you coffee? Now go get up and get it. And I looked at you and was like, Can I bring you coffee and I was like you got this realization. You got you got this realization that oh, she this is this is how she tells me she loves me is by helping. And so I think that’s a really great point is let us help. But then also, the Committee of you that is my friends and my community stepped in and say there’s nothing more you can do here except for take it to the star the story. Amen to that.

Crissy Loughridge 27:11
All right,

Amy Watson 27:12
well, are you done? interview me, because this has been a little terrifying. You did really good. Well, thank you. And thank you guys for listening. And I hope that Enneagram type twos out there has found a little special encouragement in this episode, you can find a little bit more about my journey as an Enneagram to my Enneagram coaching with Karissa Harrison, and the season finale of season two. And that’ll be in the show notes. So thank you, we’ll be back in two weeks with Enneagram type three, and you will have to wait to find out who that guest is. But we will be back here in the healing zone. And until then, just remember, we always say your scene, you are known. You’re heard your love, and your value. Hey, guys, thank you so much for spending time with us. I always say at time is something that we’re not making more of. This was a interesting episode to do. As I literally was on the other side of the mic, I hope that you gained something from it, especially those of you who are Enneagram twos are those of you who love us. Don’t forget to head over to the Patreon account, as I mentioned the beginning of the episode and listen to ACX chat that is free content. And it is just something that we wanted to do for the listeners especially during the Enneagram series. So until two weeks when we see you back here and the healing zone, you know what I’m going to say you are seen you are known. You are heard, you are loved, and your dad

Transcribed by

Trauma, Loss & The Enneagram Type 1

By Amy Watson, Host, Wednesdays With Watson Podcast

These series of posts are a debrief from podcast episodes. It is our desire that people get this information in any capacity we can get it out there. Please follow us here for posts that mirror the podcast as well as other posts!

The study into the enneagram can and does shed great light on how we process and heal from trauma. The focus of this post is Type One. This type operates out of the “gut” center of intelligence and tends to make decisions based on their gut feelings. Enneagram type ones show up in the world as the citizens that desire and promote fairness. They have a strong desire to show up in the world with impeccable character, informed decisions, and precise information. They have a strong fear of being wrong, or viewed as operating without character in the highest order. They desire correct information so that they can make informed decisions and are likely frustrated with misinformation as they rely on this for decision making. It has been said that type ones have the strongest inner critic. Enneagram coach Karissa Harrison, describes the inner critic for type ones as “mean, spiteful, and hurtful”. So, how does the inner critic serve to indict the type one in times of trauma and loss?

Firstly, it is important that enneagram type ones understand that they are already good and right and just, and they are so because of the completed work of Jesus on the cross. When we introduce trauma, this personality type is going to find a way to blame themselves and will likely wander down that road that leads to self loathing, often affecting mental health and the ability to live life to its fullest.

It is important for this personality type to understand that things are not going to be as they prefer. This personality type likes a nice and tidy life–the kind that mostly does not exist. So, it is important for this type to keep a group of people around them whose voices are louder than that of their inner critic. Cristy award winning Becky Wade tells us about the importance of community in her interview with us about trauma, loss and the enneagram. Becky shares with us, how, in a two specific times of loss and hardship, her inner critic attempted to take control, but she was able to reach out to her community who spoke truth into the situation, helping her with anxiety and all of its buddies.

Trauma is hard for all of us, type ones might really struggle with the “walk back” because they do not want to be perceived as “wrong” and that inner critic is louder than logic for them.

So, what is the answer besides community? Well, it is important to know that you were created exactly like God wanted you and because He designed you, He has the master plan of how to help you live with how you live your life. God did not design trauma, but He did tell us we would have trouble in this world. So, for our enneagram Type ones out there, it is so important that you remember you are already GOOD. Even if everything you ever did for the rest of your life was horrible, you are already good because you are an image bearer, and all that “bad’ you think you are is covered by what Jesus did for us on the cross.

It can be very helpful to understand how God made us when we face trauma, when we pay attention we can take steps towards healing. Type ones, we see you for all the good that you are, because you merely exist. And that inner critic is almost always wrong, so when you need us, we are here.

For our entire podcast series on “Trauma & The Enneagram, click here. For the episode of the enneagram type one, see below.

Trauma, Loss & The Enneagram, Type 1, Becky Wade, Navigating The Inner Critic (Podcast Transcript and audio)

Listen to more of the enneagram podcast at

****Besides the intro, this is a TRANSCRIPT of a podcast. While we make every attempt to fix the mistakes in transcriptions, you may see a few errors! The podcast can be found here, or here is the transcript for those of you who prefer to read!*** Check out post above this one for my take on “After The Interview”.

I was so excited with author Becky Wade agreed to sit down with us as our type 1 enneagram. Becky opened the series by sharing with us how she navigates the inner critic that is such a hallmark of the enneagram type 1. Becky shares with us how her inner critic served to indict her when she suffered a loss.

We understand that the enneagram is merely a tool, but we also know that when we pay attention to how God made us, when trauma and loss occur or when we are dealing with it from our past, we can better rebound and not sit in our trauma and let it win. Enjoy this transcript of our episode with Becky Wade or listen to the podcast here, just scroll down for her episode.

Thank you for being part of the Wednesdays With Watson family!

Becky Wade 0:00
I think what I’ve learned for myself in my own life is that I am most joyful, and most at peace,

closest to the heart of God when I am not viewing myself based on my performance

Amy Watson 0:18
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the Wednesdays with Watson podcasts. We are in season three of the podcast, a season we are calling trauma spaces, places and aces.

If you are new to the podcast, you may not know that this podcast is all about community, it is about community and helping us process trauma. It is about community and just doing life in general, it is about loving each other where we are and the broken places where we may find ourselves. This is a podcast that highlights trauma informed counseling. And this season, not unlike other seasons, we will have experts come on. And the goal of that will be to provide aces for you. Whether you are the person who have experienced trauma, or you love someone who does. But most of all, this podcast is about the star of the story, Jesus who makes all things new. And if you know my story at all, and if you don’t, the first season covers that entire story, as well as one episode and the second season. called This Is My Story. These are my songs, that he is the star of my story, the redemption of all things, the one that is making all things new. So I hope that you enjoy this season. I hope that you enjoy today’s episode, as I introduce to this season. My co host Chris a lot dredge. We are so excited to bring you this conversation today. So let’s drop in to this conversation. Stay tuned at the very end for a special announcement.

Today, I am so excited to bring both my co host Crissy Loughridge and author and friend, friend Becky Wade to the podcast as we are taking a deep dive into the Enneagram. Today Up first is the Enneagram type one. And so first and foremost, I would like to thank my guests. Thank you, Becky, so much for being on the podcast. We have been excited about this conversation.

Becky Wade:

Well, you’re welcome. It’s a joy to join both of you this way. I know you pretty well. We’ve been friends for a while now. And so it’s just great to I guess get to know you even better by discussing things like personality types.

Amy Watson

Becky, thank you so much again for being on because as my listeners listen to the Wednesdays with Watson podcast, they’re really looking for healing, and they’re looking for a better understanding of how God made us and, and really how we can walk through trauma and, and how we can live in community. And so we are, we are taking a little bit of a deep dive into the Enneagram. Because I have found some great healing and as someone who has experienced trauma, but really, there is no harm and studying how God made us right. So we know that he made us in His own image in Genesis 1:26 and 1:27. But we also Psalm 139, we are fearfully and wonderfully made. And there’s nobody else on the planet like us. And so just his fingerprint on our lives. And really understanding how he made us and how we’re different is just so important. And so thank you for doing this. So I have a kind of a broad question for you. I’m loving asking this question.

What is your favorite part about how God made you?

Becky Wade 4:01
That’s a great question. I think I’m thankful to him for giving me creativity. I’m thankful to him for making me into someone who was competent, who is ethical, for the most part. I’m quite a positive person. I’m also pretty practical. So I’m really thankful for all those aspects of my personality.

Amy Watson 4:33
Well, let’s go ahead and take this conversation to the Enneagram. And so I’m just gonna read and really everyone is responding to this differently because we are different. And so let me read for those of you out here who have identified yourself as a type one, whether you’ve taken the test or not, I identified myself as a bunch of things and then I took the test because I didn’t realize what I really was. But if you are a one, typically this is your core fear and we’re gonna we’re gonna dive into this just for a minute. Your core fear is being wrong, bad, immoral or inappropriate now Crissy before we get to Becky, I have a question for you. Because those words seem kind of harsh, actually. Right? Yeah. What’s a better description in your mind? Since you you have someone and you in terms of this part of it?

Crissy Loughridge 5:25
I feel like I desire correctness, truthfulness,

Amy Watson 5:29
right. Okay, so we’re gonna get back to you in a second because you and Becky have something in common. So you just heard me say what the core fear slash motivation. Karissa Harrison (enneagram coach) says in that podcast, that this is what drives us, this is the reason why we behave the way we behave. And so tell me how those words resonate with you do they describe you, and if not, help us understand any part of it that may describe you.

Becky Wade 5:57
You know, I don’t view myself Top of Mind consciously as being incredibly afraid of being wrong. But there are things that I do and patterns that I have that do show that that’s under there. And that is something that I’m trying to avoid. Largely, I view myself as the positive side of that coin, which is someone who is striving to be right. So I guess if you hear that my fear is being wrong, it makes sense that I wouldn’t be someone who’s striving after being right, and pursuing excellence and good decisions. That’s more how I view my forward motion in this world. I don’t view it necessarily on a daily basis as me running away from being wrong. Or me having a lot of fear about being wrong. It’s more, I’m always seeking to do what is right,

Amy Watson 6:53
right. And you told me a really, really funny example, something that happens in your life and where this really shines. And I can’t wait for Crissy to hear this. I’ve been waiting for this. I can’t wait for you to hear this story. So you want to be right. And I think that that is a different side of the same coin. But tell me that story. Because I want I want Crissy to hear it.

Becky Wade 7:16
About my son. Yes. So it just is just a small example from my daily life of this desire to be right. So it definitely pertains to big picture ideas and big life decisions. But it also comes down to little minute things, like having a conversation with my son, and something will come up and he’ll say, Mom, it’s this way. And I’ll say, no, no, no, it’s this way. And, and immediately, I have to sort of go to Google and make sure that I can prove that I’m right. And then when I can say that I’m right, it makes me feel so good. Like I’m so kind of, like content and a little bit like I was right. And this plays out in my friendships as well, in my marriage. I mean, I really tried to not let this get out of hand because it can be really tiresome to be around someone who always has to be right. And so I’m aware of that. And I think humility helps. I think compassion helps. But just in in a laughable way. It’s so true that whenever I’m having giving someone advice, I like to be right. Or when I’m in a discussion with someone, and we disagree. I really like it when I can show that I’m right. So there’s certainly that that aspect to me for sure.

Crissy Loughridge 8:31
Amy’s most hated phrase from me is Are you sure? Like, I think we’re landing on the moon tomorrow. And I’m like, Are you sure?

Amy Watson 8:45
It kind of actually is working to my advantage. But Is that why you do that?

Crissy Loughridge:


Becky Wade 8:59
isn’t that important that it is for us? To have someone really like to Google and get the correct information. Yes, makes us feel very satisfied.

Amy Watson 9:14
So here’s my question:

Have you always been this way and that you just really want to be right more than you you seek to be more or all those things that I just read? Do you think that this is really evolved as you walk with the Lord and or have grown chronologically?

Becky Wade 9:33
So I think that I have always been this way. I think with maturity, I’ve learned how to sort of gentle myself and how to put others first and you know, like, like that description of Crissy saying, Are you sure that’s actually a very gentle way? For someone who thinks they’re right, to broach that subject instead of No, you’re wrong. And I can prove, you know, like there’s a lot harsher ways. Plenty of times, there’s a lot harsher ways where we can interact with other people. So I think like Crissy, I have kind of learned, I hope over time how to put others first to be humble, to just care about people in our interactions with one another. So that’s something that has certainly come with, with time with age.

Crissy Loughridge 10:38
How do you feel like being a one in this in this trait has helped you in life in general, and in your career?

Becky Wade 10:45
Yeah, I think in life in general, being a one has really helped me make good decisions. I am very clear headed. And I’m quite decisive. And I feel like that has served me so well. I’ve been able to make a lot of good decisions, as I’ve walked through life in different phases and stages. And then with my career, I think having this enneagram one personality type. Because if you equate being right with also putting out a product that is excellent, so there’s a lot of similarity there. It’s helps me discern my goals. So I’m a writer, I write Christian fiction novels. And because I’m seeking this path, that is right, I’m trying to write the very best book that I can. And understanding that I want to write the very best book I can, has really helped me make decisions surrounding my career. So I write one book a year instead of two, because if I wrote two, the books would, would suffer in quality. And I have chosen this publisher, because they can help me make the books better. And I you know, it’s like, it’s really helps me make decisions based on understanding myself and what’s important to me. So those are the ways that my enneagram one has helped me not only make good life decisions in general, my personal life, but then also benefited my career.

Amy Watson 12:17
Yeah, and you know, one thing I think I’ll add here just and knowing you, I think when you couple that with your deep walk with the Lord, and the wisdom that that brings, because Crissy and I get the opportunity to really do life with you, in both veins with friendship, and even in your writing has been really cool to me as an alleged writer, that that you spend so much time in front of the Lord. And so not only is how and your recognition of this is how God made me, I need it to be in all in this vein, and you’re you’re going before the Lord, what a perfect one two punch. And the purpose of doing this deep dive on the Enneagram is for people to understand that about themselves. And so I really, really love that. So I want to move on to this hallmark of the type one is the inner critic, and Karissa went so far as to say, in the type one she called the inner critic allowed she called it mean, talk to me about your experience with the inner critic. And more specifically, because I loved in our pre interview how you told me this inner critic serves you well, because I want other type ones out there to know that you can flip this thing on its ear, and it can serve you well. And you gave me a very specific example of that. Talk to us about that.

Becky Wade 13:44
Yes, I think that the one of the trademark pieces of the enneagram one personality is this inner critic. In my case, I don’t necessarily resonate with a very loud and mean, inner critic. I’ve never lived in anybody else’s head. But in my own head, I don’t feel like I go through life with this loud, mean, inner critic. So a lot of enneagram ones might feel that way. And they might identify with that very strongly. In my case, it’s not that so much it doesn’t come out that particular way where it’s just with me all day, you know, passing judgment and commenting on on my life. Here’s one example of where it would come out. And actually, in this particular example, it’s helpful way because I’m a writer, part of writing is rough draft writing. And then the second phase is rewriting. And you have to be in two very different head spaces to accomplish those two phases. When you’re a rough draft riding, you’re just trying to enjoy you’re trying to be creative. You’re trying to have fun when you’re rewriting this is when you have to actually turn this pile Plato into a Plato masterpiece. And so at this phase, this is when you need to put on your editor hat, you need to read the book through, you need to discern everything that is wrong. So that you’ll know what you need to address when you go back and you rewrite it page by page. When I put on my editor hat, and I read the book, I have absolutely no problem seeing every single thing that is wrong. And I think that’s my inner critic. It has a strong awareness of every single mistake that I’ve made everything that’s weak, everything that’s not working. And with my writing, as hard as it is to read something and think, Oh, my goodness, this is really not strong, this has a long way to go as hard as it is. Having that discernment has been a huge asset to my writing, because now I know how to fix it, and what needs to be fixed. So that has really, actually with my writing been very helpful. And when I go to my critique group, I have these beginning writers that I mentor, I read their work, and they many times cannot see the deficiencies in their fellow critique members work. But I can because of this inner critic, so if I read their work, it’s not just my own work, where I can see the flaws. If I read their work, I can see the flaws, they actually jump out at me. And I have no problem. And in fact, what I have to do is with them, as speaking of this gentling this is a personal thing that’s so important that other people I have to decide, okay, these are the most important things they need to work on first, and all these other things that are wrong. Maybe we’re not worrying about those tonight. Or maybe I’ll just jot a little note in the margin. I want to verbally speak this to them, because I can see so many mistakes. Yeah, without difficulty.

Crissy Loughridge 16:59
Yeah, I was going to ask this, it sort of jumped out at you. And you didn’t you answered that.

Amy Watson 17:05
Karissa mentioned that that this inner critic would serve you too. Basically you just can’t help but find the errors. So I can see why being an author and a very good one at that is helped by how God made you. And we’re going to put Becky’s information in the show notes. She is a Christy award winning author, and really one of my favorite and I’m not ashamed to say that on a podcast. And so so when we get off this interview, my manuscript has been FedEx to you. And I’m just kidding.

Becky Wade 17:48
After that, you still want me? (laughter)

Amy Watson 17:53
Crissy, you had a question, pertaining the inner critic.

Crissy Loughridge 17:57
Has the inner critic ever served to indict you for something outside of your control?

Becky Wade 18:03
Yes, I think one of the hard things is that I tend to feel very, very responsible, especially for my children, but also for my pets. Anyone that’s in my home. So if I ever have an anxiety dream, the dream is always me failing to do something that I needed to do for one of my kids, or one of my pets, like, it’s always this very innate, high level of responsibility that I feel towards them. Even subconsciously, like, just deep down, I feel very responsible. So last December, my husband caught COVID at work. And he brought it home and we went through all, you know, the quote, unquote, right steps, we quarantined him, we had him tested, it was negative. So then he, you know, came and interacted with our family. Well, it turned out that he did have COVID. And he just had a negative test, it was a false negative, and we all ended up getting COVID. And it wasn’t my fault. But my inner critic really wanted to indict me for that it wanted to say, you know, you should have done this differently, you should have done that differently. And that was one of the hard things about not only was I physically sick, but mentally I had a hard time working through that, and accepting that. You know, that was not true. It really wasn’t my fault. And my inner critic was harming me at a time when I was already just struggling to recover.

Amy Watson 19:35
Yeah, and I wonder if the fact that your firstborn two is kind of like an extra helping of that super responsibility

Becky Wade 19:42
Oh, I think so. Yeah. Double whammy,

Amy Watson 19:46
a double whammy for sure. Well, you and you just kind of refer to this a little bit as a nice segue into my next question for you is, as you know, and you know me well enough to know that this podcast and its mission is about trauma. And it started speaking of COVID was my complete inability to write my own manuscript. And so I got behind this microphone and began talking. But really my listeners have experienced trauma. And and they are looking for ways to understand themselves better for my, for my Enneagram ones out there, I was wondering if if you could share with us a time where you experienced loss as an Enneagram one. And what happened after that? What was your response to that loss?

Becky Wade 20:32
Well, just an example that is very, very recent, just a week ago, our older beloved 11, and a half year old dog passed away, and I was the family member responsible for him. I was the one who made all of the decisions concerning his health, his veterinary appointments, his food, his care. And I absolutely loved him. So when he passed away, it was just a knee jerk reaction for that inner critic to swing around and hit me. So not only was I experiencing loss and grief, just that really sharp grief you feel when you lose a beloved pet. But my inner critic was on steroids in that moment, it was like telling me that like, once again, it was somehow my fault, you know, I had made a bad decision concerning him. I hadn’t gotten the medicine he needed when he needed it. I hadn’t made sure. XYZ it just went on and on. It was just a lot of blame that came back around toward me.

Amy Watson 21:40
How did you walk it back, because this is a center point of this podcast. I loved, loved, loved how you told me you walk this back.

Becky Wade 21:50
So I have people in my life that I’m very close with, who love me and who I love, who trust me and who I trust. And so I can say, in moments like this, where the inner critic does get off the chain, I can say to them, Hey, this is where my thoughts are going. And they can say to me, that is not truth. Here’s what’s true. God took him because it was his time. And you did the best you could, and you love to him the best you could. And, you know, having that community, those people to be really vulnerable with and confide in, and actually say, here’s where my head is really at right now. And then being able to speak truth into you in that moment, and just provide comfort, and reassurance and relatability is everything.

Amy Watson 22:42
Yeah, so So my message to my listeners out there, who are who identify as an Enneagram type one, particularly with loss and trauma, this is going to be the tool that the enemy uses against you. He is going to make that voice loud, he is going to make that voice mean. And so as you all know, if you’ve been following this podcast for any amount of time, one of our three C’s is community. And what Becky has just beautifully explained to us is she is aware and that is part of Enneagram work is being aware of how God made you being aware that that voice is not a voice from God, it is not a voice filtered through Philippians 4:8 with all of those eight things, is it praiseworthy, excellent, true, noble, good report etc. Is that inner critic telling you the truth? And so for my listeners out there, I want you to hear her. And that when she had that significant loss. And if any of you have ever lost a pet, you know what we are talking about when she had that significant loss the go to place was the inner critic was the end she could have chosen to live in unhealth at that time and continue to beat herself up. Or she could have chosen to use the community that God has given her. And if you don’t have that community, you there is a community on Facebook, by the same name Wednesday’s with Watson podcast, and we will be that community for you. Because you need a voice of reason, a voice of truth in your life.

Cris, you had a particular question about COVID-19. And I think because you have so much one in you, this is a good question for you to ask Becky.

Crissy Loughridge 24:24
um, yeah, as as a type one in the early days of the pandemic, when all the information was coming at us, how was it for you? As an Enneagram one? No, it was for me. It was.

Becky Wade 24:40
It was awful. In a word. It was terrible. I think in retrospect, looking back at it through the filter of being an ennagram one I think what was tricky is that the information was so conflicting. I didn’t know what to think or believe or understand didn’t know how to make a right decision in that in that spot, you know what gives me a comfort and feeling of security is okay, I know what is right and I can do what is right. So if I don’t know what is right, I feel very much like I’m being tossed around on a stormy sea.

Crissy Loughridge 25:17
Yes, yes. I thought that a million times over did you guys feel paralyzed? I felt paralyzed. But that’s a six. That’s a total six thing too. So,

Becky Wade 25:28
no, I didn’t feel paralyzed. I just went when I am in a situation like that I act. So you know, I’m like, cleaning my house a lot, like weeding, which I never do. I’m just being like, super productive all the time, as a way maybe to try to combat my feeling of helplessness. It’s like, well, here’s some things I can do. And so I’m going to do this so that I don’t feel so helpless.

Amy Watson 25:53
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. And so yeah, so for Enneagram type ones out there as it pertains to COVID-19 I kept referring to things as the middle of the pandemic, the end of the, the beginning of the pandemic, I don’t even know where we are on that, because the fact of the matter is, is these things are still coming at you guys. So for the ones out there, we are recording this in 2021 and month 20 or 21 have a global pandemic with information still largely coming at us where we don’t know whether it’s accurate, right or true. And so I would just encourage Enneagram ones out there who are feeling this to not be overwhelmed by the amount of information you’re not alone there’s a lot of other people feeling the same way and and know that that is normal.

Amy Watson 27:27
One of my favorite questions, and this actually comes from came from the heart of one Crissy Loughridge. I’m going to ask it and one can add to it. But in times of stress and trauma, when you tell us as an Enneagram type one. Like if you could just pretend like your closest friends and family are around you. What would you want them to know? What can we do so that we can do life better with you. And whatever vein we are doing that and whether it’s work or play or whatever? How can we love you better? How can we help you?

Becky Wade 28:24
I think for sure what we already touched on, which is speaking truth, having those close relationships with them where they can confess the times when they feel like they’re wrong. And they messed up. And their inner critic is really beating them down. So I think that that is super key, as much as ones want to be right, they won’t always be. So helping them understand that’s okay. But when they’re wrong with you, that you forgive them for that and love them. Despite of that, I think is huge. For me, there’s a lot of freedom in admitting my own imperfection. And for people who love me to love me despite those imperfections to, for me to love myself, despite those imperfections and for the people in my life to love me despite them as well.

Amy Watson 29:15
And I think that the one part that I do resonate with the ones and maybe this is the achiever in me is that I want people to love me for, for what I do and for how well I do it. You know, like this podcast is a great example of that. I want it to be excellent. But I also want the freedom to I had an episode where literally my dog was drinking water in the background and we could not edit it out. And so you know, I want I want people to know that too. And so I think that is that is the snapshot of the one and that you guys need just as much grace as those of us who aren’t as right as often. And yeah, we need to be looking out for you, too and that you’re giving yourself that that grace, one of my favorite things that Karissa Harrison, who was on the podcast, and as my Enneagram coach has shared with me, and it’s been a game changer for me, is she asked me this after every every session I have with her as to questions, but this one resonates here is how can you show compassion for yourself?

Becky Wade 30:21
Yes, I think ones need to have a lot of compassion for themselves. I agree. Yeah,

Amy Watson 30:26
I agree. And as she mentioned, it’s, and I quote, it’s hard to be a one, as Cris has said. And so Becky, we believe that your episode will be the first in this series to drop. And because of that, I do want to quickly and because I know this is so your heart. Can you speak to identity? Why you have spent numerous words in books and talking about it? Why is it important?

Becky Wade 31:08
I think what I’ve learned for myself in my own life is that I am most joyful, and most at peace, closest to the heart of God, when I am not viewing myself based on my performance. I think a lot of us struggle with viewing ourselves on our performance. But perhaps in a gram ones might struggle with that, even more. So when I’m not basing my worth on my performance. But instead, on my identity as a daughter of the king, who is fully approved, fully forgiven, fully accepted and fully loved. That’s when I’m my healthiest. And so constantly, I’m working to orient myself around that identity, which is my truest identity. Because it’s easy for me to get a little bit off course, and look for my identity, other places. But when I’m there in that place, where the Lord is the one supplying my identity, I feel very secure, and at peace.

Amy Watson 32:16
You know, the thing I love about that is especially for Enneagram type one is in the completed work of Jesus on the cross, and that we clean and spotless all the time in front of the God of the universe. We are right, we are good. We are sanctified, justified, all the theological terms. We are all of those things. And so we see in first Peter 2:9 how we are co- heirs with Jesus. And so for those of you out there listening, I think that when if you can identify yourself with who God sees who you are, who He made you. I was at a speaking engagement about about eight or nine years ago. And like you, Becky, I have a propensity to define myself in the vein of performance. But it’s this big Amy Watson story, right? And so I was there speaking on 60 seconds of courage. And the pastor said to me, who are you? Can you introduce yourself? Who are you? And normally I would have just kind of had a litany of all that I had been through and degrees and accomplishments. But instead it was like the words weren’t even mine. I said this and listeners, I want you to hear me because all you need to do is put your name in here. These are the words that came out of my mouth. My name is Amy Watson, and I am the daughter, the precious daughter of the Most High God. And so guys out there, regardless of what your Enneagram number is, or your Meyers Brigg, or your Strength Finders or any of those, finding your identity in the completed work on the cross and what Jesus did for you, is everything. It is why we do this podcast. And if you don’t know Jesus as your personal Savior, my contact information is in the show notes. We would love to introduce you to our Jesus because at the end of the day we stand spotless you Enneagram ones stand right and good and moral in front of Almighty God of the universe.

Becky Wade 34:28
Amen. That brought tears to my eyes that was that was you being a friend to me and to your listeners by speaking that truth over us because that was like water on dry ground. The finished work of Jesus on the cross is everything.

Amy Watson 34:43
Thank you so much for listening. I would highly highly encourage you to look in the show notes click on how to contact Becky. As I mentioned, she is Christy award winning author of Christian contemporary fiction, she is an amazing creative writer, but more importantly, her books have deep, deep faith themes. And one of the things Becky, that I love, “Then Came You” which is the novella for your Bradford series, and I have it highlighted on every Kindle. every book, every hardcopy book is “the lie I told myself today” was (fill in the blank). So Enneagram ones out there as we close out the podcast. The lie you told yourself today is that you’re not good. You’re not right, that you’re blemished in front of Almighty God, that is a lie. And we’re here to help you remind you of that. So Becky, thank you so much for being here today. I want to close out the podcast with you as I close out all of them and I’m going to try to do this without crying. I can’t even look at you right now. Because as I’m interviewing my friends, this becomes way more real. But I believe this You and I want to speak this over you and Crissy I want to speak it over you too. You are loved. You are seen. You are heard you are known and you’re valued just for being you. So thank you for being here with us today. I really appreciate it.

Becky Wade 36:08
Thank you so much, Amy and Crissy I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

Amy Watson 36:13
Hey, guys, thank you so much for your time I always mentioned I because I want to make sure that I recognize that time is not something we’re making more of, and I’m always honored when you choose to spend a little bit of your time with us. I hope you enjoyed today’s conversation with Becky Wade as she represented the Enneagram type one, we have some very special bonus content over on my Patreon account that we are calling AC Chat, where Crissy and I have a conversation after the interview. For now that content is absolutely free. It is especially free to subscribers and sponsors. But for the first nine episodes, we wanted to provide this AC chats for everyone. And so if you are interested in listening to a short conversation about this interview with Becky Wade, head on over to the Patreon link and listen to our conversation after the interview until we see you back here and two weeks where we will cover the Enneagram type two. I want to remind you of what I always do.






Trauma: Spaces,Places & Aces

Season 3 Trailer

Hey my faithful blog followers!! A LOT has happened since I wrote anything here regularly as I have been focused on getting behind the microphone and recording my podcast. March of 2020 kind of took my words in terms of writing, took all of them, and I am just getting them back! So I will be here, posting content, once a week, you guessed it, on Wednesdays. Every other Wednesday will be a transcript from the episode. This allows readers to take a glance at our discussion and if you are interested you can head to the episode. This will be in transcription mode, so all of us will have to ignore the lack of commas, periods and all their friends!

To Listen to this trailer episode you can head to or on Facebook at

Here is the transcription from our trailer episode for season 3

Amy Watson 0:00
Hey everybody, and welcome back to the Wednesdays with Watson podcast. If you have been following my journey, you know by now, my name is Amy Watson and I am your host, I am so excited to bring you the trailer episode of season three of the Wednesdays with Watson podcast

Amy Watson 0:20
that we have entitled trauma, spaces, places, and aces. But before we do that, I want to take a step back in time for just a second. If some of you have been with us through our entire journey, that very first episode that I dropped, called healing that doesn’t make sense, that was born out of just an inability to do anything else except for get behind a microphone and talk. I am so grateful that I have done that. as of the date of the airing of this trailer, we have hit significant milestones and listenership and downloads. But more important than that the mission of this podcast is to highlight the star of the story, who is my best friend, and the only reason why I’m on this planet to be able to do a podcast. And that is found in the completed work of what Jesus did for me on the cross. We have talked a lot over the past couple seasons, about the three C’s. And I still very strongly believe that those are so important, those three C’s being community, being trauma informed counseling, being in a church. But as I mentioned, we highlight the star of the story. It’s been really cool for me to go back and listen to those episodes. And listen to just how I’ve grown, how you the listener has pushed me into making sure that I stay accountable for what I’m asking you to do. And so that has been something that just continues to be highlighted in my life. And guess what, that healing still doesn’t make sense. And if you don’t know what I’m talking about, I will absolutely provide that pilot episode of season one healing that doesn’t make sense in the show notes. My story is one of redemption. It is one of Joel 2:25, constantly being fulfilled. On a daily basis, the Bible tells us and Joel 2:25, that the Lord will restore all the years that the locusts have stolen. And after having been through about 35 years of trauma ranging from childhood abuse, to domestic violence, I am watching literally watching God restore the years that the locusts have stolen, if you are listening to this podcast, you are actually listening to the years that have been restored. How cool is that? It’s actually cool to say you’re literally listening to the redemption of all those years that our enemy tried to come and take. And so in the second season, we were able to bring you the stories of other people, and they were able to bring hope and healing on the crooked roads that they have walked and their own trauma. And season three, I wanted to do a little something different. First and foremost, the first half of the season will be a nine episode drop of a study and to how God made us. Scripture tells us in Genesis 1:26 and 27 that God made us in His own image. And then in Psalm 139, Scripture tells us that we are fearfully and wonderfully made marvelous are his works. The cool thing is God didn’t make any of us exactly the same. But he did use a blueprint. And over the years, as someone who just loves to learn things, I’m curious about other things I have always loved the science behind who we are, who our personalities are, what those personalities are, maybe even what informs those personalities. And so while I was praying about the next season, I had already taken a deep dive into a tool that helps us understand our core motivations and our behaviors called the Enneagram. And so for the first nine episodes, and if you go back to season two, you will see two episodes that leads us into this. This ushers us into why the Enneagram is important, and why it’s important in helping us understand and heal from trauma. And so we will spend the first nine episodes talking about the nine different Enneagram types. And we will have guest on for each one of those Enneagram types that will not only speak to you, if you identify as that particular Enneagram type, but maybe more importantly, and then feeding to the community aspect of the goal of this podcast is for you to do life with people who are different from you, and then also for you to understand their trauma and why they may react and respond the way

Amy Watson 5:00
They do. It will always be the purpose of this podcast to minister to those of you with trauma, and to those of you who love us. And so speaking of that, one of the most exciting announcements that I’ve ever made on this podcast is that this season, I am not alone. And I already feel the peace behind this microphone with my Memory Keeper, one of my best friends in the whole world, my business partner, but more importantly, one of the reasons why I am alive on this planet because she obeyed when God said, Love that broken person. And so it is with great pleasure that I introduce you to you today. None of you are going to be surprised if you listen to the podcast, my brand spanking new co hosts Crissy Looughridge Hey, Crissy,

Crissy Loughridge 5:49
hey, it’s good to be here. I just want to correct one thing. Love that broken person is not what God said. He said love that valuable, valuable treasure. And I think that that’s that’s the whole point here is that we’re not seeing ourselves for who God made us. And I think we all struggle with it. I do too. But that just wanted to make sure we’re clear on that.

Amy Watson 6:13
That’s fair. And I think I think it’s the point. Yeah, it is right? Yes. Like I didn’t even mean to misspeak, because clearly I still have some growth in this. And so one of the reasons why I love that Chrissy is sitting next to me is for reasons like that.

Amy Watson 6:31
So Crissy, as as we have decided to invest half, literally half of this season, and to this deep dive into understanding how God made us. Why do you think that is important? And I’m going to ask you from both sides. Why do you think it’s important for someone who has experienced trauma to really understand their core fears, slash motivations? And then as a follow up, why is it important for people like you who love people like me to understand why, what drives our motivations and our behaviors? Why is that important?

Crissy Loughridge 7:04
For me that the answer is because we have an enemy, who is going to continue to try to trip us up. And the more we know, the more we’re able to identify, hey, this is this is not the truth of who I am. This is a response to or this is a fear I have. But it also helps us, especially in community, if I understand what’s going on in my friends and family, I’m able to speak truth into their lives, similar to what just happened, right? So I’m able to say wait, no, I don’t see a broken person, I see a valuable person. This is what God called me to to a valuable person, not a broken person.

Amy Watson 7:51
I think that that is so powerful. Because you bring up something there that is so important is that we do not give our enemy who has the Bible tells us that He is the prince of this world. I think sometimes we forget that.

Amy Watson 8:09
Yeah, we will live in a world that is ruled by Satan by our enemy, but he has come to steal, kill and destroy us. And he clothes himself. And he clothes the things that come in our lives looking a lot like the real thing, don’t you think?

Crissy Loughridge 8:28
Correct. So in one of my struggles as an Enneagram, six is not feeling safe. When I understand that that is my core fear, I’m able to go to my community, coaches, get counseling, if necessary, I’m able to

Crissy Loughridge 8:50
almost like having a big shield up against all the arrows that are coming at me to ward off the the lies that are trying to soak into me and tell me who I am. Right?

Amy Watson 9:07
Yeah, I love that. I love that so much because they are lies. And if we can’t live in community with each other, it’s very similar to when, when, for example, if I write something or if I’m doing a podcast or something like that, and I’m doing the listen through, there is a point where I am hearing all the things wrong with it or reading all the things wrong with it. And it’s not until and this is why authors have editors it’s not until you give it to somebody else and they’re able to shine a light on it for you and go no, it’s perfect. All you need to do is switch this and this. That extra perspective and living in community is so important. The other thing Crissy that the Enneagram does for us, especially a gospel centered Enneagram approach like we are going to take that it does for us

Amy Watson 10:00
and this has been my experience is and we just talked about a little bit, but this this incredible awareness of how we’re made. So for example, you just mentioned that you’re a six and your core fear slash motivation is fear. And so and so funny, and I use this example a lot. I remember when we were first friends, we would go to a movie theater, and you would know where all the exit signs were. And I was grateful for that. But I thought it was weird, but I was grateful for that. And as you will share on your episode, because you will be our six, your worst nightmare your core fear was realized. And trauma wasn’t not yes. And so we will talk about that we will talk about how understanding the core fear the core motivation has helped you process that trauma. My I’m in Enneagram two, as I’ve mentioned, my core fear slash motivation is being unwanted or unloved Well, in my trauma that was very realized. And so the walk back, now that I understand, okay, that is why that hurt me so bad and why it still hurts to this day. It is because that’s how God made me I just want to be wanted in love. Not that everyone doesn’t want to be wanted and loved. And I think that an important point to make here is you are not your Enneagram number.

Amy Watson 11:23
And so we see in first Peter two, nine who we are and our identity is in Christ. But our goal with this with this season, trauma spaces, places and ACES is to talk to you about that. So the first nine episodes will be about the Enneagram and how it can help you heal from trauma and more importantly, help you live in community with those other people that do coming up in the second half of the season. We will be talking about trauma and different spaces and places. And that will be a hybrid Cris of a couple solo episodes, we will have some professionals on we will have some stories that people have come to this podcast to know and love stories of hope, stories of redemption, stories of continued fulfillment of Joel 2:25. And so we are so excited to bring this to you in two weeks. It is again the season three of the Wednesday’s with Watson podcast. If you are not already following or subscribe to the podcast, I would love it if right now you would open up your app and just hit whatever button it is and your favorite podcast or you simply can go to and subscribe there. But we are so excited to bring you season three trauma spaces, places and aces two weeks from today. Thank you so much Crissy for agreeing to be beside me. And I know that that you’re just going to bring a lot to the podcast. And so as we as we move into this season, we pray that it will land in the earbuds of the people that need it and that people will continue to grow and heal from their trauma. And so thank you so much for being here. As I always say I appreciate you spending your time with us. It is not something that we’re making more of and until I see you back here and two weeks until we see you that’s going to be hard to do. And so we sit you back here and two weeks here on the healing zone. You know what I’m going to say? You are seen you are known you are heard you are love and you are valued.

Amy Watson 13:34
You are seen

Amy Watson 13:36

Amy Watson 13:43

Amy Watson 13:52

Amy Watson 13:54

Transcribed by

Weaponizing The Gospel

Podcast Version:

In her 2020 song “My Weapon” Natalie Grant beautifully sings about the presence of God being her weapon, I believe it with my whole heart, the presence of God is a weapon and this is demonstrated all throughout the gospels. Here is one of my favorite lyrics from the chorus:

“Your presence is my greatest weapon, pushing back the darkness, breaking every chain, my worship opens up the heavens, crushing every strong hold when I speak Your name, because Your presence is my weapon.”

In Mark’s gospel, Jesus repeatedly lives in community with people who appear to be mentally ill. To name a few: the man in the synagogue possessed by a demon (1:21-28), the Gerasene demoniac (5:1-20), and Bartimaeus, who was screaming at Jesus at the side of the road (10:46-52). We can imagine Jesus interacting with other people – including the apostles – who may have be suffering from depression, anxiety, or PTSD and all their friends. In each case, Jesus approaches these people and treats them with dignity. He refreshes their souls. He simply provides His presence first and then whatever else they needed. No name it claim it stuff from Jesus.

Lifeway Christian conducted a poll that demonstrated that almost half of evangelical Christians believe that they can overcome their mental illness with Bible study and prayer alone. I am so excited when God chooses to deliver a person from depression and its friends. But we all know it doesn’t always work that way. I was at church the other day and as a woman was getting baptized she declared her depression gone, and part of me cringed because I knew there were people whose internal dialogue told them “but that didn’t happen for you”, my internal voice was probably the loudest.

Just a few months ago a pastor, author and mental health advocate, Steve Austin, who had championed mental health being highlighted in the church, completed suicide. I didn’t know him, but it set in motion thoughts of “we have got to do better” repeated over and over in my mind. I thought about how we get it wrong. This is not a podcast to chastise anybody, rather to exhort a community of people who are either hurting or live among those of us who are. I want to exhort you to use scripture responsibility, understanding that there is an enemy who is the greatest of all time at using scripture against us as we see in the temptation of Jesus in the desert.

Buckle up guys, we worked hard on this episode, and know that I am speaking to you community—those of you who do life with others like me. This is Wednesdays With Watson Podcast: PTSD, Jesus and You: Weaponizing the Gospel.

Did the title get your attention? Good, if you clicked play, you are my people. Before we get too far into the podcast I want to encourage you to doo something so that we can continue the conversation on IG for the next 10 days, while you are listening open your app and click on the first link you see, that is my IG account. We are going to keep talking about this in short 30 second videos, and I will provide some real- life examples of when the greatest scripture twister of all times has harmed real people. I am looking forward to interaction there as we continue this important conversation. This will especially be advantageous as we move into the season finale where we begin to dive into Faith and trauma.

Before I proceed let me be very clear that I believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God and is the authority by which I attempt to live my life. We know that the Bible tells us in 2 Tim 3:16-17 all scripture is given by the inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” So the purpose of this podcast is not to take away from the authority of scripture, but rather to attempt to shed some insight on how we often use scripture out of context, in an untimely manner and dare I say, almost use it against those of us who struggle with anxiety, depression, PTSD and all of its friends. Scripture is a weapon, but it is to be used against the ruler of this world, removing his ability to seek, kill and destroy us.

He will use scripture to destroy us, if we let him, and this is why it is so important to be careful about when we use scripture for hurting people. Notice I did not say IF we use scripture to minister to hurting people, but WHEN.

When I was in the children’s home, we traveled almost all year and sang in churches to raise support for the home. It was not unusual for us to have sung 8 times in 7 days. You can also understand how many sermons I have heard in my day, and for the most part I am grateful for that experience, but there was one wounding message from the pulpit, where Luke 9:62 was preached completely out of context, and the decades that followed were driven my misunderstanding of that scripture—that was taken completely out of context. As the years went by, my misunderstanding of that scripture would be reinforced as I would also see it on cute little posters on youth room walls and so I began to take the scripture to heart, exactly as it had been preached. I do not remember hearing about the entire story of the passage, not the one before it or after it. I locked in on not looking back.

“No Man who puts his hand to the plough and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God” Luke 9:62.

You see, the preacher man told us not to look back, or we would not be good enough for the kingdom of God. He didn’t preach the verse in context or explain that these red- letter words of Jesus in Luke 9 were meant for those who made excuse after excuse as to why they could not drop everything and follow Jesus. And so the production monster of Amy Watson commenced at the tender age of 15 or 16. Trauma wasn’t done with me just because I was at the children’s home, and the years that followed found me not looking back and definitely not seeking help, I wanted to be good enough to be fit for the kingdom of God. As I look back now, with every gut punch in my boxing ring of life, I kept my hand on that plough, I did not look back and with each layered trauma came a distance between God and me, and somewhere along the way I lost who I  was and by the deeply in the throws of a DV marriage wondered. I wondered, often, if God even existed. There were plenty of reasons for my crisis of faith, including my own standoff with God, but that scripture just ruled me, and I didn’t even understand it. I have paid for this thought process in spades over the years. I kept putting my hand to that plough and not looking back until I couldn’t and that fall out is well documented on this podcast, season one Hospitals and Courtrooms.

As I processed the completed suicide of Steve Austin,  I feel now more than ever that my voice must be among those that begs a community of well -meaning believers to simply proceed with caution with us. As I mentioned, I believe the Bible is Absolute Truth, and so as I wrestled with the loss of a mental health advocate and the memory of this scripture creating a performance monster, I knew I had to get behind this microphone and talk about it. And not unlike any other episode, I went to the scriptures, because I really want you to know the power of the presence of God, living and active in you, and sometimes, in the triage stage of helping us, that is what we need. I landed in one of my favorite scriptures in the entire Bible, and probably my favorite gospel, the gospel of John.

He wept. The tears of Jesus are documented in the shortest verse in the Bible, John 11:35. Some have different speculations about why Jesus wept but one thing for certain Jesus heard both Mary and Martha when they said “Lord, if you’d been here our brother would not have died” Jesus didn’t throw down more red letter words– not like he could have, instead, he seemingly absorbed the pain of those around him and he responded like I hope you and I do when there are those among us who are hurting –he joined them in their sorrow as he was either sad that they didn’t have faith in him or he was sad because they were sad –my point is he didn’t throw any number of scriptures or even chastisements at them. Instead, he wept!  He got in the trenches with his community and he wept.  Jesus’ response to Mary and Martha is a beautiful example for us to follow as we do a life with the hurting broken and bruised– 100% of your community falls into that category at any given time, so as we do life together what is our responsibility to our tribe?

Remember that Natalie Grant song? Certainly, Mary and Martha were comforted by the very presence of Jesus, albeit a few days too late. And so Mary and Martha had a weapon in the presence of Jesus Who got in the trenches and he cried with them. And, so I ask again what is our responsibility when we walk with those who are hurting broken and bruised?

It is to weep with those who weep and mourn with those who mourn. So often we want to fix people and so we use our perceive expertise to help solve a problem instead of jumping in the trenches with hurting people who are sometimes in the war of their lives. Wars need weapons and so we wield these weapons freely with clichés, motivational quotes and yes scripture. It is this you got a problem I got a Bible verse thought process that harms people and maligns the very gospel we say we love! Of course there’s a Bible verse for every problem but when doing life in the trenches with the trauma victim often times you are the Bible verse, your life where the word of God is living and active. You may be the only Bible verse they can handle at the greatest moment of pain.

The first chapter of John talks about how Jesus is the word and how he was there from the very beginning. But that scripture also says that the darkness cannot see the light test because it could not understand the light. I think that is often the case with people in pain, the depths of their darkness is so intense they can’t receive scripture, they cannot understand it.

So, let’s have a talk. What do I mean by weaponization of scripture?  Today it’s just my mic a few hundred friends and me, so let’s chat about how instead of using the Bible as a weapon against our real enemy we pick and choose verses that have somehow been badly passed down through the ages and at times serves to harm a trauma victim particularly a PTSD patient. I can’t tell you how many times well-meaning people quoted Philippians 4:6 to me: “be anxious for nothing but in everything by prayer and supplication let your request be known under God” I can’t explain the shame I felt before I understood PTSD, depression and anxiety. I finally took a deep dive into that verse and the Greek connotation of the word anxiety is more to meditate or renumeration on something– that is a much different description of what it feels like to have a panic attack or to live in the deepest parts of depression so we throw that particular verse out there people like me feel gut punched by the Holy Bible.

It was never the cliches, cute memes or locker room scripture posters that led me towards healing—instead, God used people who just did life with me, they were His presence and that was my weapon.

These people do not judge me. I remember a time when I must have taken too much Xanax. That was frequent in the days before that hospital stay. It was the middle of the day one friend I was texting called another friend and before I knew it there was a knock at my door there they stood both of them ready to settle in and watch me until the meds get out of my system their response to one of my darkest hours is the reason I’m alive and behind this microphone. Just like Jesus could’ve said 1 million things to Mary and Martha but chose compassion so did my friends. Instead of throwing down red letter words at me they demonstrated the love of Jesus by their actions to this day neither of them have ever spoken of the time they dragged me to a Mexican restaurant are we waiting for the Xanax to wear off.

I am looking at you today—community. We preach it all the time on this podcast. We have encouraged community, but we have never exhorted you or given you something tangible to do when you are doing life with us.

Today, I am here to do that. I want to encourage you as you love those among us like me who have survived or is surviving the fallout from decisions of another. I have made my position clear that I believe that the WHOLE Bible is Absolute Truth and is appropriate for every situation, and we should use it as such too. It is a gift, it is a GOOD gift, and I am so thankful for it.

But just like with all good gifts it matters how you deliver it and it matters how you treat it. The good news of the gospel is the only answer I believe that. But I also stand with my trauma tribe as we love a mysterious God Who for some reason has allowed us to survive trauma. Delivery of the good news matters and my friends said more with that taco dinner  than anything else they demonstrated  the gospel by their actions, they reminded me why I love Jesus because I could see it in them. 

I am still talking to you community. Your involvement with us can’t be shallow, we need you in the trenches with us. You will get dirty, you will get hurt, so decide before you dive deep with us if you really want to fight with us.

When you are constantly in the trenches with somebody you won’t be there long before you have earned the right to begin using scripture– because you have remained a steadfast trench mate. This is true of another friend who picked me up for work the day after I totaled my car during the darkest time of my life, it was the final straw. I remember it like it was yesterday she turned on the light in her van on one dark October morning and she held her own copy of Ken Gire’s book “The North face of God”—“for when you’re ready” she said.

 I was ready and that book, steeped in scripture changed my life forever and is still one of my favorite books on my bookshelf. I have my own copy now and have given away countless copies of it. It is still so often picked up when it gets dark.

I know what you’re thinking hey I clicked play on this podcast because of the title Weaponizing the Gospel what does that even mean? Well I’m glad you asked! Weaponizing the Gospel is opposite of what my friends did. You might also be asking yourself who weaponizes the gospel? Even though I want to raise my own hand because it is easier to send someone a quick Bible verse as a text or card and not get dirty that way, but the reality is I don’t have the power to weaponize scripture neither are you, or do we? It is something to thing about for sure.

But there is one that is the greatest of all time using scripture against us, and he has been given dominion over the earth and using scripture against us– like the anxiety verse that I stated earlier is it not new to Satan as we read in the gospels and the temptation of Christ –what did satan use? SCRIPTURE! Looking at you again, community, let me encourage you that as you compassionately began to use scripture make sure you’re using in context, don’t cause the cautionary tale that I experienced, living decades of my life thinking I couldn’t get help or even revisit the past trauma or I would not be good enough for God. Remember that darkness can’t understand light, so be patient when you utilize scripture to help us. And finally remember that scripture is living and active in you, and as you do life with us, you usher in the presence of Jesus, the Star of the story. His presence is our greatest weapon, and so many of you can be the person that ushers in hurting people to Jesus; we just have to be responsible with the greatest gift of all time, the Absolute Truth, the authority by which we live.

So, what am I saying?  I’m begging those of you who love people like me to remember compassion leads the way. Living in the trenches with us gives you the right to bring scripture and God into our pain, and we will receive it because you have demonstrated your desire for us to get better, just by your steadfast role as a trenchmate.

 Also, remember, the way you deliver the gospel matters. It doesn’t look like cute Memes and name it claim it Bible verses. Finally, we need to remember the power of our words and so when we do use scripture we need you need to use it properly I’m still tearing down walls getting back to that little girl who thought that she could never look back.

I am so grateful for my community and given the proper time they aren’t afraid to throw down some red little words at me. If you are under the sound of my voice and are without a community I urge you to find it somewhere. It only takes one trench mate sometimes, and once you are there with us, as a light, dividing the darkness, scripture will come alive in us too.

It has been my hope that you feel encouraged as a community, and that we all realize the power of the gospel and not ignore the greatest liar of all time who cannot stand against it, but he can weaponize it, and he often does, through us, without us even knowing it. I went to the streets while writing this episode and I asked a group of people to share with me a wounding message they received from some well- meaning person that all but threw a Bible verse at their problem. There were many, but about 10 verses that were mentioned to me over and over, and this is where the conversation will continue on my Instagram. I will post one verse a day for the next 10 days and those posts will be in the highlight portion of my IG for those of you listening to this later. You will learn how oft missed Bible verse are wounding to those of us living with trauma, and for that matter those of you who aren’t. So, make sure you are following us there and I can’t wait to dialogue with many of you in the static post (will put in stories and as a post).

Guys, the word of God is divisive and sharper than any two edge sword. Use it responsibly lead with compassion, don’t let the best news ever get twisted and then never reach the hearts of people that need it the most! Do life with people, then they will want your Jesus.

[Re] Making Marley

“If you have PTSD, at some point your safety has been compromised”—those words ring in my ear, they reverb in my soul and they help me understand the life I live as a PTSD patient.

She told me nobody ever asked; no one cared, they just threw a label on her because she wasn’t speaking—instead of asking or even caring, they phoned in their responsibility that day. She kept telling me, I just wanted someone to ask, I just wanted someone to give me a hug. She told me about the welts they found on her body, but that didn’t stop the nightmare in her home. In my minds eye, I see her hiding in a closet, those words haunt me too.

She started her conversation with me with words that still haunt me “I was gifted with two parents”. I thought about that for a little bit and wondered how she could use the word “gift” when those welts came from one of those “gifts”  She showed me a picture and explained to me that the smile on her face tells a story—a story of a beautiful little girl who just wanted to be asked a question: are you ok? Can I give you a hug?

Then I wondered how many of you look at two parent homes and assume everything is ok and never ask. Her words haunt me, NO BODY EVER ASKED. 

She survived, because as she puts it “I had basic needs meet” I disagree with her, she might have had food and water, but she suffered one of the worst things that can happen to a child, abandoned and neglected, even if it happened in the suburbs.

Liittle Marley’s mom’s (or her other gift as it were) own mental illness forced little that little girl to raise herself without the love and support of what we all assume happens in a two parent home. She told me of the time she attempted to end her life in college. She told me about the 8-10 text messages she sent saying goodbye. She told me how much it meant to her that those people came running to help her. She told me that those people asked, cared and hugged. 

Finally, someone asked, and today a thriving Marlena comes to share with us how she got from abuse and neglect to where she is today, a pediatric ER nurse, a mental health advocate and curator of remaking Marley, hope in trauma, purpose in pain, all of it is on an audio recording I will forever be grateful, please don’t miss this story of child abuse, and how bringing awareness to you is the most important thing we can do.

Be the change? Support this effort by following this free podcast and hear Marlena’s episode here.

Desiring Wellness (the forgotten prayer)

Listen to this solo episode on podcast Wednesdays With Watson.

Dear God,

I don’t think I really meant it when I said whatever you wanted was cool with me. I hate that everyday is a struggle and that most days is just about getting to the next.

Haven’t I done enough?

Haven’t I surrendered enough?

Haven’t I been hurt enough?

Haven’t I loss too much already?

Why tease me only to break my heart into a million little pieces?

Why was my husband so awful and will I ever recover?

When will people stop dying or leaving me?

When will I be able to receive comfort without having to give up something in return?

How long can I go on speaking the words, that You are always there without questioning them myself?

Why did you build me up to tear me down?

Where is this peace You speak of?

Why don’t I have it? Why won’t you at least let sleep come at night?

Why do things change?

Why won’t it stop hurting?

Why can’t you just listen?

Why can’t you throw me a bone?

Will you come meet me in this precipice of life and death?

What did a 7 year old kid do to deserve that kind of abuse? Why didn’t you stop it?

Where were you with every punch for 12 years?
And why, why, won’t you let me just go? Your hold on me makes me miserable. It makes me mad that I can’t just go live my life and put this behind me.

What have I done, O, God, what have I done? Why are You silent?

Nothing can separate me from You, so why do I feel so lonely?

Lord, I feel like she just left me and he just hit me. All I want to do is sleep. I want the pain to go away. I do not know how to deal with this pain. And frankly, I am a little mad at you. I flip through Your Word looking for something to help, and it’s hard to believe it; it’s hard to find it; it’s hard to believe in the unseen. I have never blamed you for the things that happened, but I am confused why You are silent now?

At the end of the day, I do want what you want, but Lord, this is a desert place. I am at a cross roads, either with a choice to completely surrender to You or to abandon You, meaning that I would abandon everything I have ever learned, believed or taught about You. The fact that I feel this way about You right now terrifies me.

Please show up in a way that we humans deem miraculous when in fact, all you have to do is wave Your hand. Please wave your hand, Lord. Please heal me.

Very much like the doctor in the healing pool—I want to know why You haven’t healed. And then I got it. My power is in my wounds.

I do not pretend to understand You. I desire to understand You, but I don’t really know how to do that.

Lord, I don’t know how to surrender. Take this from me, please? Erase painful memories. Please teach me how to make You my everything. Please teach me the concept of constant abiding. Please write Your name on my heart so when the doubt comes back, it is branded; branded with my God who is more than enough.

Thank you for Your word. And even though I don’t understand You, I know You showed up here with me today.

Father, I pray that you would be my dad. I pray that You would speak. I pray that You would comfort me. I pray that You would heal me. I pray that nothing else in life would matter. I pray that I would live with reckless abandonment. I pray that I would live this way BECAUSE I don’t understand You. You are my King, You are my only hope. I beg that you come hold me, Lord. And that nothing else would matter.

Forgive my anger. I sure don’t understand any of this and for the first time ever am willing to admit that. But no matter what, I always come back to the same thing, You. I just don’t always know what to do with that. I am not used to anything or anybody sticking around. If you do not choose to heal, I ask that there would be power in my wounds.

Listen to this episode in it’s entirety on the podcast where you can find here. Do we even want to get well? Listen to the rest of the story, and how my choice to pursue healing changed everything.

Wednesdays With Watson is a passion project but I will spend the rest of my life giving you Hope. There is a lot of it waiting for you in podcast land!